Posted on Jan 16, 2021
At what moment does the US military separate itself from the government when thinking the Soldiers creed and oath of enlistment ?
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Is there a moment where the US armed forces not partake in decisions made by congress when things get to political? What if they are wanting actions to occur by our military when they go against the people and the constitution? Is it even the us military anymore at that point? Question stems from an uncertain near future with the new “leadership” that we now have. Just asking out of curiosity
Posted in these groups: 
Constitution
UCMJ
Constitution UCMJ
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 127
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Technically no, since congress has the power to write law to grant them the necessary power to accomplish their needs. If you're referring to Posse Comitatus, even the president has the authority to command troops inside U.S. borders against the people in severe cases and under extreme circumstances.
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Lawful Order: "March them into the Gas Chambers!" Response: "Just following orders."
Turning on American Citizens, no matter the order or from whom, would be something soldiers should consider thoroughly, carefully and deeply.
American Soldiers were once civilians and will be so again (hopefully) and they should be (and usually are) aware of the highly charged, misleading and often false political speech of our so called leaders, many of whom's only ambition is to hold and retain power at any cost. RE: the 2020 Election.
In the end soldiers alone and together must decide when to obey orders or when to walk away. We do not want Robots for American soldiers. We want American Soldiers who have moral and ethical values and obey them first and foremost.
Turning on American Citizens, no matter the order or from whom, would be something soldiers should consider thoroughly, carefully and deeply.
American Soldiers were once civilians and will be so again (hopefully) and they should be (and usually are) aware of the highly charged, misleading and often false political speech of our so called leaders, many of whom's only ambition is to hold and retain power at any cost. RE: the 2020 Election.
In the end soldiers alone and together must decide when to obey orders or when to walk away. We do not want Robots for American soldiers. We want American Soldiers who have moral and ethical values and obey them first and foremost.
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If there is a conflict between orders, and the constitution, the oath you took is the deciding factor. An example in the real world was the National Guards involvement in gun confiscation during hurricane Katrina. That was clearly a violation of the oath.
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You just continue to follow orders until an Unlawful order is given. You'll know it when you hear it. All the second guessing and supposition you are engaging in is useless speculation that is a waste of your time and energy, detracting from your ability to do your job and carry out your mission. Your command will do 99.9% of the heavy lifting on that particular subject, anyways, and they get paid to do exactly that. Remember what the job of the Non-Com is: getting the mission accomplished, not deciding if the mission needs to be accomplished. Trust in your chain of command.
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SGT Mary G.
SPC Mark Stevens - well stated response. I think it is easier to trust in the chain of command (NCOs and Commissioned) when individuals make time to be approachable and accessible for more than fielding complaints. Having a bit of informal conversation, appropriate time and place, better yet group conversation, can be productive for everyone.
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The moment the government starts using you to enforce things that are unconstitutional and would require you to violate your oath of enlistment. Remember, "support and defend the Constitution of the United States of America" comes before "obey the [lawful] orders of the President and the officers appointed over me" for a reason.
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SGT Scott Henderson
MSgt Mike P. not saying we won't. I'm saying that just like the 2nd Amendment to the constitution, the oath of enlistment is worded in a specific way for a reason and it's in the individual to uphold that oath.
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As you’ve probably learned by now with all the officer “blah, blah” on here, pretty much nope. If you’re in uniform, you’re bound by duty and oath to follow orders, even from a complete fucktard like the idiot in office now. Only deviation would be obviously illegal or compromised orders. Keep asking questions though, as it’s the best way to learn.
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The military must obey all lawful orders from anyone in the chain-of-command. We are bound by our oath until they make unlawful orders, i.e.: kill unarmed citizens for no reason. If you do not understand this concept go back to PLC.
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Never. You take an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the US, and obey the lawful orders of the POTUS, AND THE OFFICERS APPOINTED OVER YOU....." You don't get to choose whether you like them or not. As for dealing with lawful or unlawful orders, that is FAR above most of our pay grades. Stay smart, and stay informed. For a real good telling of a similar scenario, see the movie "Seven Days in May" with Kirk Douglas and Burt Lancaster. Might answer a question or two.
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CDR William Kempner
SSG(P) Danielle Birtha - Loved your response. Lolol. You really need to get some professional help.
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SSG(P) Danielle Birtha
CDR William Kempner - CDR? Really? And you believe you have some kind of right under the First Amendment to use HATE SPEECH against me?
You're not in command of your own mind.
Or... you're an enemy of this Nation, and posting propaganda and hate, in a highly fascist Nazi way.
I need professional help?
Not according to the Psychologists I've seen. Yeah... been there.
Diagnosis: Gillian's Asperger's Disorder... aka... High Functioning Autism... aka GENIUS.
Like Einstein. Or Sherlock Holmes. Yeah that's a story written by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle.
You're a Commander? Go ahead... look at my entrance scores into the Military.
Yeah. I went there. You question my intelligence and sanity?
I QUESTION YOUR LOYALTY AS A SOLDIER IN THE U.S. MILITARY.
HOW MANY SECRETS HAVE YOU GIVEN AWAY TO THE ENEMIES OF THE U.S. WITH YOUR ACCESS TO SECRETS BY YOUR RANK?
You obviously don't don't give a damn about the Oath you swore, or the Country you claim to serve.
THANK YOU FOR YOUR DIS-SERVICE #$$BITE
Spew your hate speech on someone else.
Meanwhile, I shall exercise right to be free of your domestic violence by reporting your hate speech to Rally Point...
AND HOPE THEY BAN YOU >(
Attack me again and I press charges against Rally Point, and YOU...
HATE SPEECH IS A CRIME IN THE U.S.A. and no... posting the true FACTS of the Constitution, and U.S. Laws made to comply with OUR LAW...
is NOT hate speech.. IT'S THE LAW.
FACT: You don't like the Laws of MY Country?
This is the U.S.A. ... in this Country... if you want to go to another Country... NO ONE WILL STOP YOU.
Do yourself a favor... go join Steven Segal... Putin loves U.S. Citizens LIKE YOU.
You're not in command of your own mind.
Or... you're an enemy of this Nation, and posting propaganda and hate, in a highly fascist Nazi way.
I need professional help?
Not according to the Psychologists I've seen. Yeah... been there.
Diagnosis: Gillian's Asperger's Disorder... aka... High Functioning Autism... aka GENIUS.
Like Einstein. Or Sherlock Holmes. Yeah that's a story written by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle.
You're a Commander? Go ahead... look at my entrance scores into the Military.
Yeah. I went there. You question my intelligence and sanity?
I QUESTION YOUR LOYALTY AS A SOLDIER IN THE U.S. MILITARY.
HOW MANY SECRETS HAVE YOU GIVEN AWAY TO THE ENEMIES OF THE U.S. WITH YOUR ACCESS TO SECRETS BY YOUR RANK?
You obviously don't don't give a damn about the Oath you swore, or the Country you claim to serve.
THANK YOU FOR YOUR DIS-SERVICE #$$BITE
Spew your hate speech on someone else.
Meanwhile, I shall exercise right to be free of your domestic violence by reporting your hate speech to Rally Point...
AND HOPE THEY BAN YOU >(
Attack me again and I press charges against Rally Point, and YOU...
HATE SPEECH IS A CRIME IN THE U.S.A. and no... posting the true FACTS of the Constitution, and U.S. Laws made to comply with OUR LAW...
is NOT hate speech.. IT'S THE LAW.
FACT: You don't like the Laws of MY Country?
This is the U.S.A. ... in this Country... if you want to go to another Country... NO ONE WILL STOP YOU.
Do yourself a favor... go join Steven Segal... Putin loves U.S. Citizens LIKE YOU.
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SSG(P) Danielle Birtha
Sad... all the haters seem to be coming from COL Mikel J. Burroughs group.
idk what kind of mindless drivel he's spewing into your corruptible brains...
BUT LEAVE ME OUT OF IT >(
COL BURROUGHS... YOU DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT TO SIC YOUR PYCHO FOLLOWS ON ME BECAUSE I WON'T BE A MEMBER OF YOUR GROUP >(
idk what kind of mindless drivel he's spewing into your corruptible brains...
BUT LEAVE ME OUT OF IT >(
COL BURROUGHS... YOU DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT TO SIC YOUR PYCHO FOLLOWS ON ME BECAUSE I WON'T BE A MEMBER OF YOUR GROUP >(
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