Posted on Aug 5, 2014
SSG Robin Rushlo
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Atheists want guard to stop bible handouts what is your opinion
If you do not believe in the BIBLE GOD JESUS etc do not take the BIBLE. Easy answer

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2014/08/05/atheists-want-guard-to-stop-bible-handouts.html?ESRC=eb.nl
Posted in these groups: Atheism symbol Atheism
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CPT Jason Torpy
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Humanists also take advantage of the MEPS policy which is actually secular and egalitarian. Gideons could be said to be preying on impressionable young troops with a nationwide effort to push Christianity. But that wouldn't really be fair because the policy allows any 'non-federal entity' to place literature for use by trainees. When humanists or satanists or wiccans choose to do so as well, they will (assuming no discrimination) be welcomed, and they have been in the past.
http://militaryatheists.org/news/2012/02/humanist-literature-now-available-for-new-enlistees-2/
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SGT Team Leader
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Good for Gretchen. I'd bring some of the brochures to OKC.

And...

"Despite these setbacks, the brochures now sit alongside the Bibles, managing not to catch each other on fire." Amazing.
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SSgt Forensic Meteorological Consultant
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If I saw a book of Zen, A Koran or a Bible, I would take it if I wanted one. If not I would move on. I fear too many militant atheists are sad sacks and activists.
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It's simple and [not] rocket science! If you don't want the Bible say "no thank you" and leave it at that! No one is forcing the Atheists to read it, or look at it! If it is on a table, or desk in Billeting....just stick it in the damn drawer! Geez....we need to quit catering to those people!
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Sgt Packy Flickinger
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If your religious, bring your own bible. Easy answer.
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Sgt Packy Flickinger
Sgt Packy Flickinger
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I'm just sick of the whole religion anti religion crap. Honestly, both sides need thicker skin and to grow up.
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CPO William Hughes
CPO William Hughes
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Preacher, you should read it again. IT IS UNLAWFUL FOR A PERSON IN UNIFORM TO HAND OUT OVERTLY RELIGIOUS MATERIAL. PERIOD. It is a violation of the separation of Church/State.
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SP5 Renee Reif
SP5 Renee Reif
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CPO William Hughes - exactly. #churchstateseparatioun #stopreligiousnationalism
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LT Surface Warfare Officer
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My only questions are 1)Who paid for them? and 2)Who is being paid to give them to "everybody"? If my tax dollars are buying them and paying soldiers/sailors/airmen/marines to try and give them to everyone, then I expect equal billing for all religious texts. If privately funded and distributed, go to town, but no thank you, I don't need one.
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LT Surface Warfare Officer
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That's great and well within their rights. Are they handed out or made available though? On most Navy bases, the chapels have areas where literature of most types is available, though not endorsed specifically.
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PO1 William "Chip" Nagel
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Yeah it was a tradition to get the MWR Package before deployment containing the Gideon's Bible but it does kinda fly in the face of Separation of Church and State when the Military does Represent the "State". I think they have a Point. Maybe a compromise have Several "Holy Books" available and let the service member choose or not.
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SP5 Tom Carlson
SP5 Tom Carlson
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no one is being ordered to take it..
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PO1 Disaster Survivor Assistance Specialist
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Actually, there might be some debate on that matter. If you're handed a package, contents unknown, then you can either take the entire package or reject the entire package on the premise it might have something inside you find offending. If that is case, then simply being handed an unopened package could be considered "an order" if no other instructions were provided. I can remember being in line with hundreds of others being told to get into one line after another - being handed manila envelopes with instructiosn to not open them while in line - all without explanation. If you asked what was in the package you were told to "shut up and get back in line". After a while of being constantly bombarded with similar packages, to include bibles and bible-study material, one simply takes what is given without question. What was sad, was I later learned the chaplain in charge of the bible hand-out was so very proud of his efforts - until the base commander informed him of just how many of the bibles and study material ended up in the dumpster behind the building (nearly 2/3 of a 20 yard dumpster).
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PO1 Disaster Survivor Assistance Specialist
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No argument PO3 Ben Sackenheim . There are lots of things done that are in the 'shouldanot' column - where senior individuals with the right thoughts used the wrong tactics/strategy.
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SP5 Renee Reif
SP5 Renee Reif
3 h
SP5 Tom Carlson - don't fool yourself. many service members ARE compelled to participate in the religous crap of their superiors.
https://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/about/our-mission/
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SGT Alicia Brenneis
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I am a Christian and I will never understand why someone would be so offended by something they don't believe is real. The bible is just a story to people who do not believe. Do these people (the ones who are demanding no bibles) get offended when someone hands them any other "fiction" novel ?
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CW5 Desk Officer
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SSG Practical/Vocational Nursing
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Perhaps that is an issue, no other literature is being made available or allowed. If only one viewpoint is allowed, then it is in violation of court rulings prohibiting the establishment of favoring one belief (by default, or intentional exclusion).
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CPO William Hughes
CPO William Hughes
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No other "fiction" novel commands it's followers to rape, maim and kill their fellow human beings and "become part of the flock".
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SSG Chemical Biological Radiological and Nuclear Operations Specialist
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The length of this conversation is the explanation as to why handing out any religious texts is a sub optimal course of action.

No free bibles, no issue. If you believe then you probably have a few of your own, if you do not, you may also have one or two.

So why hand one out? What purpose does it serve? The only one I can think of is the hope that a person will read it and come to believe. If that is the case then it is attempting conversion.

Then I think of the funds put into it, the number of holy books left behind or found years later in bags and tossed.

I support the atheist on this issue on purely fiscal grounds.
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PO2 Religious Programs Specialist
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As an atheist AND a RP3 I would like to throw my two cents in here...

Many atheists feel pressured when a handout like this is offered. Sometimes it is met with hostility and sometimes its a simple "no thank you". BUT A lot of it has to do with the tact of the person giving out the Bible and a lot of it has to do with the past experiences of the atheist. Chances are this is going to be a negative experience BECAUSE of one of those two factors.

However, Proselytizing is never ok in the military. The Religious Ministries Teams are here to facilitate, not convert. Much of the time when there is a backlash against a particular Chaplain or a particular event it is because it crosses this line.

This is not a cut and dry situation and the topic here really isn't fair. Not every atheist wants to stop the military from making religious literature available to those who want it, not every atheist is an asshole, and not every atheist wants to end religion.

Best case scenario for something like this? Equal time and equal space for every faith group. If MEPS or the Chapel (or wherever) has bibles out and available then, AT THE VERY LEAST, they should also cover each of the other faith groups that are covered by the Chaplain Corps. Christian, Jewish, Islam, Hindu, and Buddhist... and if they are feeling particularly awesome that day then they can put out secular and other minority religious books.

Otherwise... if you can't facilitate equally then they should not provide anything to anybody. Just my two cents.
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SP5 Renee Reif
SP5 Renee Reif
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LTC David S. Chang, ChFC®, CLU®
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I agree, people don't have to take it if they don't want. I understand that some can be pushy, but I think it can go the other way too. My faith is important to me but won't push it on people.

Being deployed and seeing that many look towards their spiritual life I will gladly explain my faith if asked. I believe that if some of the atheists that don't want the bible handed out have ever faced deployment, some may understand that handing out the Bible isn't a bad thing and can help morale for those serving in harms way.
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SPC(P) Samantha Moore
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A simple 'no thank you" is enough, I do it all of the time when people try to hand me things that I don't want. An offering is not "pushing my beliefs on you."
This person is giving Athiests a bad name by just being an as*hole.
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SP5 Renee Reif
SP5 Renee Reif
4 h
spoken from a position of #religoiusprivilege #stopreligiousnationalism. the people hire soldiers, not proselytizers.
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