Posted on Aug 18, 2015
"Ben Bernanke: Being In the Military Won’t Actually Help You in the Real World"
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From: Foreign Policy
The U.S. military has spent tens of millions of dollars on TV advertising promoting the armed forces as a great way to acquire skills and training that will pay dividends in the private sector. But on Monday, one of the country’s most respected observers of the U.S. labor force, former Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke, directly contradicted that message.
“The evidence appears to be that there really is not an advantage,” Bernanke told a crowd at a Brookings Institution event in Washington. “If you go into the military at age 18 — versus an identical person who stays in the private sector and takes a private sector job — 10 years later, if you leave the military, your skills and wages are probably not going to be quite as high on average as the private sector person.”
Bernanke specifically called out the U.S. Army for using misleading advertising and noted that for veterans who left the military after 2001, the unemployment rate is just above 7 percent, as opposed to the national average of 5.3 percent.
“The military takes our younger people and uses them for good purposes, but it’s not really adding much to the private sector through training or other experience,” Bernanke said.
The remarks have already drawn heavy fire from veterans who say the renowned economist, widely credited for leading the Fed out of the greatest financial crisis since the Great Depression, is wrong on the facts.
“I am not sure where Mr. Bernanke got his information, but the current numbers just don’t reflect saying military service does not help you succeed in the private sector,” said Fred Wellman, a 22-year Army veteran and CEO of ScoutComms, a veteran-focused advocacy firm. “The most current surveys show that veterans are far more likely to be employed than non-veterans and earn higher median incomes in those jobs.”
Frustrated by the claim, Wellman added that Bernanke’s remarks were “just another example of the civil-military divide, wherein Americans have ill-informed or dated views of what veterans bring to our country.”
Phil Carter, an Army vet who served in Iraq and is now a senior fellow at the Center for a New American Security, says the reality is more complicated than both sides are letting on.
According to surveys and data from the Department of Veterans Affairs, Wellman is correct that the total unemployment rate for veterans overall is lower than for the general public. However, Bernanke is also correct that post-9/11 veterans, specifically, have a higher unemployment rate than non-veterans when adjusting for demographic differences.
Carter said that an important factor is that veterans who served prior to 9/11 — predominantly white males — tend to do well in the private sector and are beating the national average for unemployment by a significant margin, a fact that distorts the average.
However, he also pushed back against Bernanke, noting that post-9/11 veterans won’t immediately see a benefit from military service due to the time it takes to readjust to private sector work. But, he said, those skills do pay off over time — which will be reflected in future surveys.
“It takes time for veterans to catch up, but the data show that they do catch up and, in many ways, surpass their peers over time,” he said.
Ultimately though, Carter acknowledged that Bernanke’s contention is a sensitive one because it threatens the entire premise of America’s modern military. “Bernanke’s speaking a very uncomfortable truth that goes to the core of the all-volunteer force,” said Carter. “The whole idea is it can recruit people by saying, ‘You’ll serve your country and be better off afterwards,’” he said. “Bernanke’s comments suggest that might not be true, and that’s a big problem for the all-volunteer force.”
https://foreignpolicy.com/2015/08/17/ben-bernanke-being-in-the-military-wont-actually-help-you-in-the-real-world/
The U.S. military has spent tens of millions of dollars on TV advertising promoting the armed forces as a great way to acquire skills and training that will pay dividends in the private sector. But on Monday, one of the country’s most respected observers of the U.S. labor force, former Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke, directly contradicted that message.
“The evidence appears to be that there really is not an advantage,” Bernanke told a crowd at a Brookings Institution event in Washington. “If you go into the military at age 18 — versus an identical person who stays in the private sector and takes a private sector job — 10 years later, if you leave the military, your skills and wages are probably not going to be quite as high on average as the private sector person.”
Bernanke specifically called out the U.S. Army for using misleading advertising and noted that for veterans who left the military after 2001, the unemployment rate is just above 7 percent, as opposed to the national average of 5.3 percent.
“The military takes our younger people and uses them for good purposes, but it’s not really adding much to the private sector through training or other experience,” Bernanke said.
The remarks have already drawn heavy fire from veterans who say the renowned economist, widely credited for leading the Fed out of the greatest financial crisis since the Great Depression, is wrong on the facts.
“I am not sure where Mr. Bernanke got his information, but the current numbers just don’t reflect saying military service does not help you succeed in the private sector,” said Fred Wellman, a 22-year Army veteran and CEO of ScoutComms, a veteran-focused advocacy firm. “The most current surveys show that veterans are far more likely to be employed than non-veterans and earn higher median incomes in those jobs.”
Frustrated by the claim, Wellman added that Bernanke’s remarks were “just another example of the civil-military divide, wherein Americans have ill-informed or dated views of what veterans bring to our country.”
Phil Carter, an Army vet who served in Iraq and is now a senior fellow at the Center for a New American Security, says the reality is more complicated than both sides are letting on.
According to surveys and data from the Department of Veterans Affairs, Wellman is correct that the total unemployment rate for veterans overall is lower than for the general public. However, Bernanke is also correct that post-9/11 veterans, specifically, have a higher unemployment rate than non-veterans when adjusting for demographic differences.
Carter said that an important factor is that veterans who served prior to 9/11 — predominantly white males — tend to do well in the private sector and are beating the national average for unemployment by a significant margin, a fact that distorts the average.
However, he also pushed back against Bernanke, noting that post-9/11 veterans won’t immediately see a benefit from military service due to the time it takes to readjust to private sector work. But, he said, those skills do pay off over time — which will be reflected in future surveys.
“It takes time for veterans to catch up, but the data show that they do catch up and, in many ways, surpass their peers over time,” he said.
Ultimately though, Carter acknowledged that Bernanke’s contention is a sensitive one because it threatens the entire premise of America’s modern military. “Bernanke’s speaking a very uncomfortable truth that goes to the core of the all-volunteer force,” said Carter. “The whole idea is it can recruit people by saying, ‘You’ll serve your country and be better off afterwards,’” he said. “Bernanke’s comments suggest that might not be true, and that’s a big problem for the all-volunteer force.”
https://foreignpolicy.com/2015/08/17/ben-bernanke-being-in-the-military-wont-actually-help-you-in-the-real-world/
Posted in these groups: 
Military Life
Civilian Career
Military Life Civilian Career
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 33
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2 points here:
A. His beard is WAY out of regs. He just needs to start pushing now.
B. I'm 9 months out from Retirement. I already have a job locked in making just as much as I do now (if not more depending if I want the OT). So his argument is a moot point to me.
BLUF. Screw him! And his cronies.
*drops mic and walks out of room*
A. His beard is WAY out of regs. He just needs to start pushing now.
B. I'm 9 months out from Retirement. I already have a job locked in making just as much as I do now (if not more depending if I want the OT). So his argument is a moot point to me.
BLUF. Screw him! And his cronies.
*drops mic and walks out of room*
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Money isn't everything Ben - there are many intangibles that make a person "better" that you can't cash in at the bank. Just look at Pat Tillman as an example. Also the comparisons are not equal based on socioeconomic factors. I would argue that SM's from lower income conditions are doing better than their peers having served. On the other end sure the white guy going to Stanford might end up being more financial successful but again when quantifying what "success" is its not always about the money.
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I feel like many of you feel as if he is attacking veterans, and I didnt really get that vibe from the article. I feel that he is pointing out a problem that puts us vets at a disadvantage when it comes to transitioning into the private sector, and I think that if this is truly a problem, it's a GOOD THING to point it out. How else are we going to address it if no one is willing to bring it up! It's almost as if he is advocating for veterans, not bashing them.
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I would love the opportunity to read and respond to Ben Benanke comments, but every time I open your link it requires me to "subscribe" to the website "for a cost". Please post a fashion that allows RP members to access without cost, if you want good feedback.
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What ever! First of all the particular skill the Army may have trained someone in may not apply to the outside world....but! I bet that person is a better person after having served...has more discipline and aptitude to better their life than before serving...furthermore, the Army/Military gives everyone the opportunity to go to College which will Definitely help them with employment in the outside world.
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First, money isn't the only criteria for what the Military Teaches you. If your benchmark for success is monetary gain...you never served...or if you did, you had a rough time. Second, I am reminded of a quote by Mark Twain: "There are lies, damn lies, and statistics."
Third...every person I ever met in my career became a better person in most ways...some had to fight demons not available to the usual course of "business" in the private sector. Those nightmares show up in the number of PTSD cases...and all of those guys are working to be better people than the forms of self medication they chose to help themselves deal with the pain, both psychic and physical. And it is the things they learned in the Service that will help them recover.
The few areas where a "head start" did make a difference for the Private Sector...doesn't establish how many Service Members both caught up, and surpassed the average employee. In fact, I would be willing to argue that the outliers at the top end...are likely to have served!
Enough said.
Third...every person I ever met in my career became a better person in most ways...some had to fight demons not available to the usual course of "business" in the private sector. Those nightmares show up in the number of PTSD cases...and all of those guys are working to be better people than the forms of self medication they chose to help themselves deal with the pain, both psychic and physical. And it is the things they learned in the Service that will help them recover.
The few areas where a "head start" did make a difference for the Private Sector...doesn't establish how many Service Members both caught up, and surpassed the average employee. In fact, I would be willing to argue that the outliers at the top end...are likely to have served!
Enough said.
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Life Experiences tells us that too. So I mostly agree with Mr. Bernanke. The numbers are and are NOT there, depending on what you're looking for. I agree a 100% on his calling out the Army for using Misleading Ads. Most of the Army and Marines is Infantry and there not equivalents in Civilian life for that. The AF and the Navy however do have some MOS that are Very, very useful in the Civil life, the Main one is; Pilots. Lots of Airlines pilots came out of both the USAF and the Navy.
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Here is why I believe this very intelligent man is wrong:
First, the numbers he is looking at have nothing to do with the potential that the military (specifically the Army)offers. Your competitiveness in the real world is based on your drive to take advantage of the opportunities offered to you. Not only is your specific Army MOS transferable to the civilian sector, but you have tuition assistance and the GI Bill that offer you the chance to learn something completely different. Then, you have the opportunity to change your MOS at reenlistment, and get something more marketable. Don't have the asvab scores for the job you want? Take the free fast class. Couldn't get a security clearance? Apply again at reenlistment (or sooner in many cases). If you already have your gen eds, the Army can send you to college to become a nurse for free. If you have no college, you literally just need to work on your PT, and drop a packet to go to West Point, or WOCS. PAYS program offers a free interview. Or you can stay in and retire out of the Army. And MORE!
So, I can say confidently, the Army, that very intelligent man is wrong. The military DOES offer the OPPORTUNITY to be better prepared for the civilian sector than without. Who, and how many people take advantage of those opportunities is a completely different story.
First, the numbers he is looking at have nothing to do with the potential that the military (specifically the Army)offers. Your competitiveness in the real world is based on your drive to take advantage of the opportunities offered to you. Not only is your specific Army MOS transferable to the civilian sector, but you have tuition assistance and the GI Bill that offer you the chance to learn something completely different. Then, you have the opportunity to change your MOS at reenlistment, and get something more marketable. Don't have the asvab scores for the job you want? Take the free fast class. Couldn't get a security clearance? Apply again at reenlistment (or sooner in many cases). If you already have your gen eds, the Army can send you to college to become a nurse for free. If you have no college, you literally just need to work on your PT, and drop a packet to go to West Point, or WOCS. PAYS program offers a free interview. Or you can stay in and retire out of the Army. And MORE!
So, I can say confidently, the Army, that very intelligent man is wrong. The military DOES offer the OPPORTUNITY to be better prepared for the civilian sector than without. Who, and how many people take advantage of those opportunities is a completely different story.
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