Posted on Sep 5, 2022
TSgt Operations Management
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I'm prior service Air Force Reserve, went through the full recruiting/waiver process and was approved to rejoin the Air Force. However, my command (fully supported and endorsed by JAG) feel my enlistment should be void based on AFMAN 36-2032 paragraph 5.4.5.5.2. I'm trying to contest this because chapter 5 doesn't even apply to me as an Enlisted member. The command is aware of this but still dead set on unfairly voiding my enlistment. Please advise Thank you
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MSG Intermediate Care Technician
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Edited 3 y ago
It's not AFMAN 36-2032, it's DAFMAN. But I digress. That DAFMAN reads worse than stereo instructions written in cuneiform.

Are you trying to come back in with a commission?
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MSG Intermediate Care Technician
MSG (Join to see)
3 y
TSgt (Join to see) - Well, your Reserve unit Command is smoking a fat crack pipe. I would recommend you contact your IG office due to they (your unit) are trying to nail you for fraudulent enlistment under a chapter that does not pertain to you. Just for that alone your Command is violating regulation. Or, see if your Recruiter can get a hold of someone at Recruiting Command and have them contact your unit command team to let them know that your enlistment contract is valid and legal. Or both.
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TSgt Operations Management
TSgt (Join to see)
3 y
MSG (Join to see) Yes exactly!! 100% agree! Like I mentioned to the CPT below, my Reserve unit Command is basically ignoring my recruiter and the Recruiting Command.
My Reserve unit hasthe Legal office and IG in their back pocket. I reached out to IG and IG said this is a "command issue" and could not get involved. They also said my enlistment was "void from its inception" and "therefore I am not entitled to any due process". But IG and my Reserve unit have not explained how my enlistment was erroneous or fraudulent but they are actively trying to nail me and void my enlistment. It doesn't make sense. I went to a recruiter, AF recruiting command approved my waiver, I took the Oath and got back in. Got a CAC card and showed up on the unit's books. How is it void??
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COL Randall C.
COL Randall C.
3 y
TSgt (Join to see), from a 30K foot level, it appears that the crux of the issue your command has deals with a waiver.

I'm not sure if you want to post the details (you mentioned that you went through a waiver process), but it may be that for some reason they think you weren't honest about your past and something else came to their attention.

Since para 5.4.5.5 deals with waiver approvals for misconduct and major misconduct (yes, I know that para 5 is for officers being assessed, but since they referenced that paragraph it gives insight to the command's thinking).

If your command does not respond to you inquiries about "Why are you doing this?", then there are a few options you can pursue (I'll caveat all this with the assumption that you really have no clue why this is happening ... the other case can easily be true).

Have you actually had a face-to-face with your commander and asked him respectfully to know why this is happening and if you can possibly address the allegation? I assume he/she has signed off on the paperwork, but it might be a one-sided story.

Have you contacted a local Air Force legal office? I'm not talking about your unit JAG (which I assume you're referring to - it's hard to envision a reserve unit having the entire legal office "in their back pocket"), but an non-affiliated (to your unit) legal office.

Have you taken advantage of your higher command's open door policy with leadership? If you are being completely shut down at your unit level, then bringing it to the awareness of the higher command might dislodge something. Of course, this is a two-edged sword .. it might dislodge something if there is something that you don't want dislodged.

There are also other options (i.e., "big guns") you can use, but I would at least try the above. Face to face with your commander to try to get to the bottom of why this is occurring. If you can't get to the bottom of 'why', then going the higher command route so the question is asked to your unit "from top down" instead of "bottom up". Finally, you should contact a regional Air Force legal office to get advice instead of trusting that we RallyPointers really have a clue about what we're talking about :)
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TSgt Operations Management
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COL Randall C. Copy that, thank you for your response Sir! So I still haven't been told the "why" by my leadership but I found out that because I was involuntarily discharge previously, the command feels I should not have been allowed back in the Air Force. The issue is they haven't been able to point to an AFI reference that supports their stance. My prior discharge was due to what amounted to minor misconduct, and Recruiting command was fully aware of that. Also my previous discharge was an Honorable so with that and an approved RE waiver from HQ Recruiting command, I thought I was good to go
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A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney
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Edited 3 y ago
From My PERSONAL Experience...
A Paperwork Screw-Up..
I Was Removed From My Job One Evening, IMMEDIATELY..
They Walked In, Asked "Are You Airman Medrick C. DeVaney"?
I Said "YES". They Said "COME With Me"...
I Was Transferred To A Different Unit The Next Day...And LOVED Being There...
About a YEAR Later I Was Notified To Return To My Previous Unit.... I Went To My CO's Office & He Managed To Get The New Orders Resented..
Here's What The Issue Was: I Lived In Panama For A Couple Years Or So & Had 2 Good Friends: Johnny Volov & Natasha Sucre. Both Have Parents Whom Left Russia & Went To Panama, Just As The CZAR Was About To Take Over,
That's WHY The Removal...I Socialized With Possible Communists
( I Was 14 To About 16 1/2 At The Time)
NOW: Here's What They Discovered During The Investigation.....
And THIS Took Them a YEAR?..
Johnny Volov Is The PRESIDENT Of Panama's "ANTI-COMMUNIST PARTY"..... NATASHA Sucre His VICE PRESIDENT.... Case Closed !! Fum Ducks./.
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MSgt Allen Chandler
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Your question "with out a VALID reason" what you really asking is does he have a valid reason. we don't know what he and the JAG are saying so we can not tell you if it valid.
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TSgt Operations Management
TSgt (Join to see)
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MSgt Allen Chandler Understood, but they are telling me my enlistment is "void" and when I ask why they cannot give me a valid reason
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MSgt Allen Chandler
MSgt Allen Chandler
>1 y
TSgt (Join to see) - can not give you a reason, or a reason you think is valid? let say they tell you the reason is "your too tall" you may not like it but they did give you a reason. now you have to prove "that" reason is not valid. so what reason did he/they give?
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Can a command just void an enlistment without a valid reason? What would cause an enlistment to be void?
CPT Staff Officer
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Wouldn't all your unit's efforts to get your enlistment terminated be nullified by Legal at the higher levels of command that would approved such a termination?

What I'm not understanding is the unit itself is going down this path. What is their motivation?

If a service member showed up on my books, and then showed up to battle assembly with a CAC ID in hand and in uniform I'd presume the guy is legit.

So what gives?
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TSgt Carl Johnson
TSgt Carl Johnson
3 y
TSgt (Join to see) - Sounds like it may be time to get a congressman involved. I wish you the best of luck. I feel blessed to have gone back in and finished my career, I hope the same for you.
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TSgt Operations Management
TSgt (Join to see)
3 y
TSgt Carl Johnson I appreciate that and congrats on being able to finish your career! Congressman involved like a Congressional? Is it effective?
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CPT Staff Officer
CPT (Join to see)
3 y
TSgt (Join to see) - You need to line your ducks up with a congressional and exhaust all military avenues of chain of command and military legal help first.

You need to take names, and point fingers. Then, when you approach a congressional inquiry you can say you went to your squad leader, then your Sr NCO, then your first line officer, then your military legal help, then your COL's, etc..... Keep track of all their names.

Then submit it for congressional inquiry.

The first thing a congressional staff is going to do is push it back to the plaintiff, did you purse your military channels first?

You want to say yes, and then be able to give the congressional staff the means to reach back to the exact leadership that can fix the problem.

A congressional is going to reach back to your first level General. So you want to make sure that General they reach back to is the one just above all the problems. So your best chance is to place all the leg work on a silver platter for the Congressional Staff.

Remember, these people have better things to do that deal with petty Reservist issues.
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TSgt Operations Management
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CPT (Join to see) yes Sir I'm working a Congressional and with an ADC currently. I have fully exhausted my chain of command and can't get any answers. Everyone seems to be either directly or indirectly in agreement with this but I'm not being told anything. Apparently the command feels I shouldn't of been allowed back but isn't that Recruiting's job to say who's qualified or not? Yes I was involuntarily discharged previously due to minor misconduct but I received an Honorable and Recruiting was fully aware. Recruiting submitted a RE waiver and I enlisted. I thought I was good to go but it personal feelings from the command seem to be running this issue
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PO1 Woody W.
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As a former recruiter, and Command Career Counselor..... one thing that will shake a command to it's knees.... a Congressional inquiry. Caveat: you better be damn correct all your eggs are in a row <read all your recruiting/personnel & waiver documentation>.
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