Posted on Dec 27, 2018
Richard Wilbanks
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Hypothetical: A 4-star general/admiral is court-martialed. There are no 4-star ranking ranking military judges, so who presides over the trial?
Edited >1 y ago
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SFC Retention Operations Nco
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Yes, in fact a general was tried by a colonel a few years ago at Bragg.
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SGT Michael Thorin
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Edited >1 y ago
DISCLAIMERS: While I have served next to many MP’s, and witnessed a couple of court martials, I am definitely not a subject matter expert, so if anyone sees anything wrong in what follows, please correct me, as I would like to make sure the info I’m providing is reliable.

With that being said Richard Wilbanks, as a caveat to MSgt Steve Sweeney’s response, think of it this way.

Justice supersedes rank. The easier way to understand is that MP’s have arresting powers, regardless of rank.

There are more junior enlisted MP’s on patrol by virtue of the rank structure and organization (from what I have experienced) than NCO’s and Officers.

That responsibility requires the lesser ranking MP’s have authority for everything from initiating a traffic stop to apprehending a suspect who may have committed a crime or murder.

They can only do this if their actions are based on justice and not on rank. If it were based on rank and not justice, every MP unit would have to have a General or Admiral patrolling to be able to enforce justice.

So, justice trumps rank in matters of law enforcement and judicial punishment.

That being said, I would hate to be a PFC who has pulled over a 4 star General, LOL.


COL Mikel J. Burroughs,SPC Douglas Bolton,Brig Gen Jim Jaeger,CPT Jack Durish,Maj Marty Hogan,SPC Christopher Smith,Lt Col Charlie Brown,Cpl Scott McCarroll,SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth,SP5 Mark Kuzinski,PVT Mark Brown,SGT Elizabeth Scheck,PFC Jacob Wrubel,MSgt Ken "Airsoldier" Collins-Hardy,SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL,SSG William Jones,TSgt Joe C.,SSgt Robert Marx,
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SGT Michael Thorin
SGT Michael Thorin
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I appreciate you expounding on that MSgt Steve Sweeney. I thought MP’s might be a good example, I just wasn’t positive of the intricacies of it. Thanks for setting me straight, and I am glad to have learned something new today.
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SGT Michael Thorin
SGT Michael Thorin
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You’re really upping the bar on this, but I would go so far as to say an entire week SGT (Join to see).
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MSgt Steve Sweeney
MSgt Steve Sweeney
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SGT Michael Thorin - I don't think I set you straight. I think you hit the nail right on the head and provided an illuminating example. I was actually trying to think of one, and you hit it dead on.
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SGT Michael Thorin
SGT Michael Thorin
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I appreciate that MSgt Steve Sweeney. It was a different perspective of it I did not consider. I liked the way you explained how authority is the cog that makes the clock tick (so to speak), LOL.

I didn’t think you were shooting what I said down, and I feel that input will help clear up some questions others may have.
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MSgt Steve Sweeney
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Yes to your first question. The military judge to your second.
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Can a military judge preside over a court-martial of a higher-ranking officer?
LTC Psychological Operations Officer
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It's not the rank of the judge that is the problem, it's the rank of the panel members (jury in civilian terms). Each panel memberr is required to be senior in DOR or rank to the accused. Here's an article about the court martial of BG Sinclair at Ft Bragg that talks to the problem they had seating the panel.

https://www.fayobserver.com/764f1e92-4b86-5eca-820a-8259e3aeedc5.html
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MSgt Steve Sweeney
MSgt Steve Sweeney
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Now that is interesting....
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CSM Darieus ZaGara
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The judge who presided over the CM does not have to outrank the offender, however, most likely the convening authority will. Thank you for your service.
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LT Terry Lober
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A military judge is appointed by the Convening Authority and for a SPCM or GCM , will be a JAGC officer. They can sit as a judge over a SM of any rank. A "Military Court composed of members" , the people that decide guilt or innocence will be equal to or higher in rank than the accused. Junior's never decide the guilt or innocence of a senior officer, unless the accused specifically waives a "members" Court at an Art 39 session.
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LTC Charles T Dalbec
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The military appointed Judge
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LTC Charles T Dalbec
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A military judge appointed by the DOD
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SSG William Bowen
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Just sharing a funny story since a few people mentioned being that PFC who pulls over a colonel or general. I was a DA civilian dispatcher at Fort Gordon (911, police, fire, EMS, alarms, gate guards, etc). We had very up to date high quality radio and computer systems. So we get a new commanding general of the Cyber Center of Excellence and Fort Gordon. Prior to this, it was just the Signal Corps and Fort Gordon, and was a Brigadier General. This was during a transition time where they were renaming all the posts to the such and such centers of excellence, so this new general was a 2 star general. He visits all the organizations on the post to get familiar with their mission and the people. So this 2 star is impressed by our communication center, the enhanced 911 tracking, and GPS in the patrol vehicles, so he decides he wants to ride with the police, so his aid sets him up.

They put him with a DA civilian police officer in the traffic unit. So the officer explains things to him, if they pull someone over, he can sit in the car and watch the video and hear what is going on. The general asks about getting out, and the officer tells him basically, well sir, it's your base so I guess you can. So this active duty SSG pulls out of the shoppette near one of the gates and blows the stop sign, so the officer pulls him over and walks up to the driver's window with the Major General (did I mention he is the commander of Fort Gordon?) standing to the right rear of the vehicle; probably would have ended up with a warning. BUT...this E6 decides it would be a good idea to start calling the DA civilian officer a rent a cop and he should take a walk somewhere else, just general disrespect. So the general says something to the effect of, "What did he say?", and the guy in the car kind of turns around and says "and who is that?". The general (oh yeah did I mention he is a 2 star general?) walks up and practically pushed out officer out of the window and leans in and says, "Say it again, I dare you. Do you know who I am?, Say it again". I know this guy had to be shitting bricks, probably looking at the two stars in the middle of shirt and the 2 stars shining on his cap, looking at his name tag, thinking his picture is on our unit wall, oh my God. You know he was not saying shit! The general tells him to have his entire chain of command in his office the next morning. Now that's just what your brigade commander, and battalion commander, and company commander, and platoon sergeant and whoever else wants to do...go to Signal Towers to see the 2 Star Commanding General of Fort Gordon because of some E6 is a smart ass when he gets pulled over. Don't know whatever happened to the E6, but I know our officer was doubled over laughing when he was telling us. He said he couldn't even begin to describe the guys face when the general was leaning all in his window. Anyway, that's the story.
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LTJG Richard Bruce
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Judges are selected from a pool controlled by JAG. If senior ranking flag officers are not available from the armed service of the accused, flag officers from the other services can be selected.

From the Manual of Courts Martial;
Q u a l i f i c a t i o n s o f m i l i t a r y j u d g e . A m i l i t a r y judge shall be a commissioned officer of the armed forces who is a member of the bar of a Federal court or a member of the bar of the highest court of a State and who is certified to be qualified for duty as a military judge by the Judge Advocate General of the armed force of which such military judge is a member. In addition, the military judge of a general court-martial shall be designated for such duties by the Judge Advocate General or the Judge Advocate General’s designee, certified to be qualified for duty as a military judge of a general court-martial, and assigned and directly responsible to the Judge Advoca t e G e n e r a l o r t h e J u d g e A d v o c a t e G e n e r a l ’ s designee. The Secretary concerned may prescribe additional qualifications for military judges in spec i a l c o u r t s - m a r t i a l . A s u s e d i n t h i s s u b s e c t i o n “military judge” does not include the president of a special court-martial without a military judge.

Rule 503. Detailing members, military judge, and counsel (a) Members. (1) In general. The convening authority shall detail qualified persons as members for courts-martial.
Discussion
The following persons are subject to challenge under R.C.M. 912(f) and should not be detailed as members: any person who is, in the same case, an accuser, witness, preliminary hearing officer, or counsel for any party; any person who, in the case of a new trial, other trial, or rehearing, was a member of any court-martial which previously heard the case; any person who is junior to the accused, unless this is unavoidable; an enlisted member from the same unit as the accused; or any person who is in arrest or confinement/
( 3 ) M e m b e r s f r o m a n o t h e r c o m m a n d o r a r m e d force. A convening authority may detail as members of general and special courts-martial persons under that convening authority’s command or made available by their commander, even if those persons are members of an armed force different from that of the convening authority or accused.
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