Posted on Sep 14, 2016
SFC Standardization Instructor
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I have an NCO who is being forced to compete in an Audie Murphy board 8 days after notification. Is there any justification to get him out of it? The 1SG is relentless, and the CSM is unresponsive pertaining to the situation.

This is a good NCO, who doesn't want to make a fool of himself at a prestigious Corps level board.



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GySgt Logistics Chief
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I am a Marine so I may be speaking out of turn here...

It is his lack of confidence in himself and, depending on how you want to look at it, a failure of his direct leadership to articulate to him the actual prestige and honor being given him by being nominated for the board.

Like someone else said, someone, at some level, thought well enough of the individual to nominate him for the board. If he doesnt win, so what? At least he will have the experience, and confidence, for the next one. Giving the guy a "pass" is not doing him any favors on a number of different levels.
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Sgt Charles Reeder
Sgt Charles Reeder
>1 y
Hell yeah Gunny, learn and take that to the next board! Been there myself, I didn't win but I learned and it made me a better Marine because I went back and study for the next time!
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SSgt William Wimbush
SSgt William Wimbush
>1 y
I concur with you 100℅ hell I was nominated for a meritorious Sergeant board when I was a Corporal. From that experience I received excellent exposure for other boards, and leadership commitments from out the command. I was walking on water from that point on! Got selected/promoted to Staff Sergeant shortly thereafter. Oooooh Rah, Happy birthday Marine!!!
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CAPT Hiram Patterson
CAPT Hiram Patterson
>1 y
Gunny tells it straight!
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CPO Nate S.
CPO Nate S.
>1 y
GYSGT - Roger that! The experience is not about failure. It is about building confidence!
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SSG(P) Casualty Operations Ncoic
142
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This happened at my unit as well. The 1SG gathered all the company E-7s and E-6s in a room and told us we weren't going home until we gave him two names (primary and alternate).
After about an hour and listing everyone who could not due to profiles and/or ETS/PCS/Retirement, there were only two people left. They were not too happy, and I sympathize with them.

I always thought boards like these were for those who wanted to compete for something to show their excellence. To make these events a voluntold event just degrades their value, IMHO.
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SFC Infantryman
SFC (Join to see)
>1 y
I went and was inducted into the club back in 2009. At the time I didn't want to go. My 1sg at the time told me he didn't care what I wanted and that I deserved it and would be a great addition to the club. I went and I did well. I had more prep time then this fellow but at the end of the day it take a day or two to memorize the Audie stuff and if you are a good candidate then you will be able to answer the questions to the best of your ability.
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SSG Matthew Peterson
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SSG(P) Casualty Operations Ncoic
SSG(P) (Join to see)
>1 y
SSG Matthew Peterson - "Esprit de Corps"
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SSG Grant Hansen
SSG Grant Hansen
>1 y
Cpl Duffy Campfield - My SGM was being a dick and thought that every soldier should and would just do as their told with no questions. Also, he was screwing up my one and only chance to be trained by Special Forces (something that would be very handy at my next duty station) for his own glory.

Hopefully, he learned a valuable lesson not to be a glory hound at the expense of his troops professional development.
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CPL(P) V5-Military Police Investigator
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38795ebf
I learned, never say no.
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Can a soldier be forced to attend an Audie Murphy board?
SFC Opsnco
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I worked for a CSM who was all about Audie Murphy. When I received my NCOER support form under "Leadership" he had put something to the effect of "study for and be selected for induction into SAMC." I didn't say anything at the time but a few days later I exercised the open door policy and we had a long heart to heart talk about SAMC. In the end he did change the bullet.

Personally, I believe there are different ways to progress in rank. Audie Murphy is one but it is not the only way. I have known numerous great NCOs without SAMC and some DBs who have SAMC. It is not a be all end all in leadership. It does however come down to character.
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SFC Tactical Advisory Team Ncoic
SFC (Join to see)
>1 y
The SAMC is not about getting promoted. This is the most common misconception about the club as a whole. Higher promotion rates for club members is just a perk that comes with the duties and responsibilities of being a member of the club. The real responsibility is what you contribute back to the NCO corps and the community.
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PO2 Joseph Fast
PO2 Joseph Fast
>1 y
Sometimes people aren't looking for rank either. We all know the military has a bunch of "alternate activities" that detract from your actual job but make points on your eval and whatever it's called for non Navy types. In the Navy our job is less than 1/4 of our eval. We have these pins that are completely pointless, but when making eval, they decide your eval. Example. Sailor 1 has 2 pins, Sailor 2 has 2 pins, sailor 3 has 1 pin, sailor 4 has no pins. Sailor 1/2 are using everything else to compete for a higher eval, then sailor 3 is under both of them but won't be competing with sailor 4. For a sailor who is getting out, spending months to collect 3 pins is pretty pointless, just let them do their job "which counts for nothing or close to in an eval" rather than make them waste time collecting 3 pins. Their is a VERY good chance they will put out better work than many others..... what I mean by that, their work will be better than if they were focused on a pin. So their work will be better than someone who is of their caliber but going after pins.
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1SG Bob Porter
1SG Bob Porter
>1 y
As an NCO you will be asked to accomplish many things you won't be prepared for.

But, you have to put your best foot forward and go for it.
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SSG Platoon Sergeant
SSG (Join to see)
>1 y
I think they would have to article 15 me.
I would just say NO!
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SFC (Other / Not listed)
37
37
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I was voluntold way back when. I was not given a choice, I accepted my fate as was inducted. I'm good buddies with a past NCO of the Year for the Army, he didn't volunteer either. However, to answer you question, no, a soldier cannot be forced. That said, if a soldier simply refuses to try I can guarantee that that soldier will receive little to no future positive actions while that chain of command is still in charge. Leaders will select soldiers whom they feel will best represent the unit, and in many units (especially combat arms units), board geeks are looked down upon. So leaders in these units have to "force" qualified soldiers into these situations which actually will better their career. Audie Murphy is practically an instant promotion ahead of peers to E-7 for an E-6. I would dare say that a lot of your E-7s who were selected at seven years TIS were Audie Murphy inductees.
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MSgt Scott Nation
MSgt Scott Nation
>1 y
CMDCM Norm Umholtz - nicely put Master Chief!
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PO2 Robert Cuminale
PO2 Robert Cuminale
>1 y
CMDCM Norm Umholtz - This site is dominated by Army personnel.Most of the time I've no idea what they're talking about. A lot of the talk is about arcane rules such as when to wear what belt with what trousers on what occasion. I had absolutely no contact with the Army in my active and reserve periods. I'm glad. I'd have had nothing to talk about with them.
What are these "pins" the Petty Officer is talking about? Isn't it about doing your job, fulfilling minimum requirements and getting proper evaluations to get a recommendation for advancement from the Division Officer so you could take the test any more? Is it about sucking up? I made CE2 in four years and never had to suck up.
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CSM Mark Gerecht
CSM Mark Gerecht
>1 y
PO2 Robert Cuminale - WOW! Not sure where this comes from. Not sure if you just want to stir the pot or if you really mean what you are saying.

Either way if you never served with us, were around us, etc then how can you even begin to understand what our culture is about. The Navy has a culture all its own...no better no worse than our own.

I served with Marines, Navy, Army, AF, and CG. Most of which were professionals. With regard to the board- to get to this board there are many requirements, performance gates, leadership requirements, and recommendations by senior leadership required just to appear before the a series of boards which culminate in the final selection board. This is a demanding board that many seek but few achieve. You got a profile view out of me and a response...the response was probably a waste of time. Given the attitude and tone of your post.

All I ask is that you refrain from trashing individuals and cultures you know nothing about. Those comments were less than professional. The site is designed to share knowledge, information, experience, and wisdom; not spread odious remarks about individuals or services. The best we can do is to be professional on this site and try to set an example for others.
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PO2 Robert Cuminale
PO2 Robert Cuminale
>1 y
CSM Mark Gerecht - I never stir pots. What I say I mean. I wasn't trashing so much as criticizing.
Want to share knowledge? Quit with the acronyms and euphemisms no one understands but yourselves.
Maybe the Army needs a site of its own?
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PO3 John Keas
34
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Edited >1 y ago
I am a Squid, so I had to look that one up...I know who Audie Murphy was (Damn good soldier) Didn't know there was a club...

Anyway...

The Board is recommended for soldiers that the CoC thinks is worthy. I just looked up FORSCOMM Reg 600-80...It's here http://www.hood.army.mil/leaders/csm/FORSCOM-SAMA-Reg600-80.pdf

I would just say the soldier just do his best. If they didn't see something in him, they wouldn't have submitted his name.

Also note, I don't agree with the handling of it, but I still think he should do his best. That's just this squid's opinion anyway.
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SSG Robert Zierler
SSG Robert Zierler
>1 y
I agree with SGT Joshua Moore.
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CMDCM Norm Umholtz
CMDCM Norm Umholtz
>1 y
Petty officer your are not a squid you are a United States Navy sailor Don't ever forget it.

Understand

From a Command Master Chief retired
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PO3 John Keas
PO3 John Keas
>1 y
I am a recovering Squid, Master Chief. Always will be. :D
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PO2 Bill Reardon
PO2 Bill Reardon
>1 y
1fdf9e35
CMDCM Norm Umholtz - he's a squid don't get so uptight
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SGT Rick Eul
31
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I'm reading "crappy" leadership as well as "go for it"
So here are my thoughts. First, SSG get out of the way, it's obvious command wants this to happen. To the NCO who has been chosen, grow a pair, Go to the 1st. Sgt. and ask for his help to prepare. Ask him to be your mentor. He wants you to succeed, because if you fail it's on him.
Don't be afraid, this is your chance to shine in front of your fellow NCO's and the troops. This cannot be any worse than the NCO boards.
With Top's help you will do fine. If he's a leader he will not let you fail.
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SSG Combat Engineer
SSG (Join to see)
>1 y
As long as his PT score is legit, and the company is willing to set aside his work time for studying this shouldn't be an issue. Yes it's a prestigious board, and the only way he'll fail is if he doesn't take this time to seriously study. I agree with the previous post of him not having confidence in himself. Like I tell all my how's going to a board, go in like George Thurgood is in the corner playing bad to the bone. Be confident in your answers and don't give some bull answer.
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SGT Dustin Sutton
SGT Dustin Sutton
>1 y
A leader studies and still fulfills his obligations to his soldiers and the company. No time should need to be set aside.
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TSgt Daniel Danielson
TSgt Daniel Danielson
>1 y
I totally agree!!!!
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PO1 Donald Vinson
PO1 Donald Vinson
>1 y
Well said, I hope his leadership steps up to help him succeed. Do your best at the board and kick some ass and take some names. Good Luck from a "Seabee"
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SSgt Carpenter
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31
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I had this happen to me with soldier of the year board (NG does soldier of the year, active soldier of the quarter) It was a NG battalion under an active brigade on deployment. I got voluntold to go to the board with 3 or 4 days of notice (don't recall for sure. At the time I had better things to do than count days!) I heard later that the CSM told 1SG (who wasn't planning to send anybody) that if he didn't send someone to the board he would have to go himself. To my surprise I won the battalion board, and had to fly to KAF for brigade. I was embarrassed by my performance at the brigade board, but later our CSM told me I had gotten second on points at the brigade board.
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SGT Cavalry Scout
SGT (Join to see)
>1 y
A junior enlisted soldier was informed he would be going to the board for Soldier of the Year the day before. He was given a study packet and the remainder of the drill day to study. The other portion of the study packet was commandeered by a Staff Sergeant who "didn't know where it was" so he could study the material in whole.
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SSG Instructor/Writer/Evaluator
SSG (Join to see)
>1 y
And THIS is an issue. A CSM thinks it should be a requirement to have a SOY competition in a DEPLOYED ENVIRONMENT! Seriously?!
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SSgt Carpenter
SSgt (Join to see)
>1 y
SSG (Join to see) - if that was the most questionable decision made at the company, battalion, or brigade level that deployment, I would have been one happy engineer!
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SMSgt Lawrence McCarter
SMSgt Lawrence McCarter
>1 y
People often are their own worst critics. The impression others have may be more favorable than You give Yourself credit for. i find most people are well versed on their duties and already have most of the knowledge they need anyway and a little brush up to prepare even better doesn't hurt either. As far as sitting on a selection board, thats the easy part , selecting the top candidate may be a challenge but well worth the effort. One of many ways to say thank You to Your people !
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SSG Steven O'Connor
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28
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Maybe how the NCO performs with 8 days' notice for a prestigious board will be indicative of how he will perform with 8 minutes' notice to JUMP TOC and get his squad or platoon prepared for a combat mission.
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SMSgt Lawrence McCarter
SMSgt Lawrence McCarter
>1 y
Very valid point !
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1SG Charles Lyons
1SG Charles Lyons
>1 y
That's a long stretch ...
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WO1 Geospatial Engineer Technician
24
24
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Edited >1 y ago
I love this, huge character and leadership builder. I was in the exact same situation! I had one week to study for the Brigade board and an additional two for the 8th TSC board. Did I get work hours to study? Nope. Did I secretly complain about it? Yep. Did I spend 4-6 hours a night studying my tail off? Absolutely! I learned more going over situational, hypothetical leadership questions in that three weeks than I ever had, minus real world experience. I had good leaders like SGM Tod Jackson who put me in uncomfortable situations to challenge me.

Good leaders learn to adapt, and adapt quickly. Things don't always go our way, leadership is not about winning boards, it's about making sound decisions. Boards are merely a tool to see how someone reacts to pressure and stress.

Even if someone does not pass this board they will learn a ton of good things about the Army and themselves as well become a better leader. SAMC is definitely not the end all be all as I am not a huge fan of the club itself but the board process is outstanding!

BTW ended up passing both boards and being inducted into the club.
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SMSgt Lawrence McCarter
SMSgt Lawrence McCarter
>1 y
I like Your statement about good leaders learn to adapt and adapt quickly ! There may be decisions that have to made within seconds in the field, This is one small measure of that quick ability !
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SSG Mark Franzen
SSG Mark Franzen
>1 y
I think that is good thing for you it give you little more pressure but all and all I would have liked had the opportunity to do it.
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