Posted on Jan 21, 2015
Can addressing junior service members by rank alone be considered a derogatory term?
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Throughout my career, I have noticed that certain rank-titles have been continually used in a derogatory manner. The most glaring of these are 'Private', 'Specialist', 'Cadet', 'Lieutenant', and 'LT'.
Here are a few examples:
- "Hey ________, come here!"
- "Hurry up ________!"
- "What are you doing ________?"
You would never hear someone use those phrases to an NCO or officer of the rank of Captain or higher, especially without adding their name to their rank when addressing them, so why talk down to someone just because they're of a certain rank?
This has always bothered me; especially when it was directed at me while I was serving at each of those ranks. So, as a tiny effort, for the past 10 years or so, I have avoided using those rank-titles in a stand-alone manner.
Here are a few examples:
- "Hey ________, come here!"
- "Hurry up ________!"
- "What are you doing ________?"
You would never hear someone use those phrases to an NCO or officer of the rank of Captain or higher, especially without adding their name to their rank when addressing them, so why talk down to someone just because they're of a certain rank?
This has always bothered me; especially when it was directed at me while I was serving at each of those ranks. So, as a tiny effort, for the past 10 years or so, I have avoided using those rank-titles in a stand-alone manner.
Edited 10 y ago
Posted 11 y ago
Responses: 115
That Soldier is not a mister anymore he is a private, specialist, or lieutenant in the United States Army. From my perspective those titles outweigh mister. Anyone can be mister but you need to raise your right hand to be a private, specialist, or lieutenant. You're doing your Soldiers a disservice by not addressing them by their proper title.
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Sir - I understand the intent and I have seen it used by field grade officers at the BDE CDR level towards captains and majors, even some battalion commanders. It's kind of like the "word" Hooah, it has different meanings ranging from yes to go pound sand. A bigger issue that needs to be addressed is calling or referring to an enlisted Soldier or NCO by their pay grade. We are all guilty of it, commisioned officers and enlisted alike. E-5 is just a pay grade a Sergeant is a leader, we need to do a better job of addressing/referring to one another by rank. You should want to be a leader instead of a pay raise. Good post!
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I was always under the impression that if the troops called one, "L-T" (pronounced, "Ell Tee"), it was a term of endearment and he/she was well regarded by the masses. If one was just called "Lieutenant", then uh oh. Stink eye runs amuck. O_o
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MAJ (Join to see)
Cpl Andrew Tucker, there is no confusion between friendship and leadership within my teams.
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Cpl Andrew Tucker
I have to respectfully disagree Sir. As you stated, the SSgt told you that some of your troops were making fun of you behind your back. That is the epitome of confusion within the ranks. IF your junior NCOs do that, even light heartedly because they know you and know that you will see it as a joke and a junior soldier hears that, especially a new join or someone who doesn't like you, then you have a command failure. Respectfully, you should nip this in the bud and follow your SSgt's advice. He's only looking out for your best interest, like any good SNCO should.
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MAJ (Join to see)
Cpl Andrew Tucker, the NCOs that decided that they would make jokes about me saying "Yes Sir", "No Sir", "Yes Ma'am", and "No Ma'am" to Privates are not part of my team. Never-the-less, they can feel free to make jokes if they wish. They are the same NCOs that are constantly belittling their own Soldiers. They are poor examples of what a professional Soldier should be. Everyone knows that they are the bad apples. Their opinions are meaningless, not just to me, but to just about everyone else.
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I decided since your name is LT Slaughter, you can call me ANYTHING you want!
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MAJ (Join to see)
Thanksgiving Day
COB Speicher, IZ
By coincidence, at the exact same table at the dining facility sat:
- Sergeant (SSG) Slaughter
- Captain Morgan
- MAJ Blessings
The icing on the cake was the MAJ Blessings was the Division Chaplain for 42nd ID, a Reserve Division out of New York.
SPC(P) Jay Heenan
SFC Jim Neuser
SGT Jeremiah B.
@po2 skip kirkwood
COB Speicher, IZ
By coincidence, at the exact same table at the dining facility sat:
- Sergeant (SSG) Slaughter
- Captain Morgan
- MAJ Blessings
The icing on the cake was the MAJ Blessings was the Division Chaplain for 42nd ID, a Reserve Division out of New York.
SPC(P) Jay Heenan
SFC Jim Neuser
SGT Jeremiah B.
@po2 skip kirkwood
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Suspended Profile
I have a friend, we used to fly together. At the time his rank was Major. His last name? Minor! Maj. Minor!
One of my training instructors, when I cross-trained was a TSgt. And his last name was Slaughter (no joke and NOT the wrestler from the 80s). Sgt. Slaughter!
One of my training instructors, when I cross-trained was a TSgt. And his last name was Slaughter (no joke and NOT the wrestler from the 80s). Sgt. Slaughter!
SSG Mike Merritt
I had LT Hell, LT Dick, LT Peace and a few others. As I drill, I saw all kinds of fucked up names. FUKU was one.
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CDR Kenneth Kaiser
PO2 Skip Kirkwood - As you might appreciate I think we few of Naval origins might have a harder time using anything other than rank or name Such as Petty Officer Smith because anything more definitive would have to include the specialty. I always had a hard time with the Army because they had Specialists as well as ranks . Very confusing.
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"what are you doing, SERGEANT?"
"hey SERGEANT, come here!"
"hurry up SERGEANT"
(CAPS added for emphasis of the word not to indicate that sergeant was actually inflected during speech. I wish I could embolden letters in RP)
nope..no of those bother me. I have had them tossed my way many times, usually for correct reasons.
As far as LT goes...I tend to use the more familiar nickname with officers that I know well and usually during relaxed environments such as team-building PTL "I'm open LT..throw the Frisbee".
I also see the term used as a quick reference. "LT's on the way, get ready to roll." This is similar to "TOP" and something I am seeing more recently: referring to ranking female officer as "the mam" and ranking male officer as "the sir". "Have you seen "the mam? I have her report".
I think these terms, used in proper context indicate a level of endearment towards the intended that speaks of good moral, unit cohesion, and comradarie.
"hey SERGEANT, come here!"
"hurry up SERGEANT"
(CAPS added for emphasis of the word not to indicate that sergeant was actually inflected during speech. I wish I could embolden letters in RP)
nope..no of those bother me. I have had them tossed my way many times, usually for correct reasons.
As far as LT goes...I tend to use the more familiar nickname with officers that I know well and usually during relaxed environments such as team-building PTL "I'm open LT..throw the Frisbee".
I also see the term used as a quick reference. "LT's on the way, get ready to roll." This is similar to "TOP" and something I am seeing more recently: referring to ranking female officer as "the mam" and ranking male officer as "the sir". "Have you seen "the mam? I have her report".
I think these terms, used in proper context indicate a level of endearment towards the intended that speaks of good moral, unit cohesion, and comradarie.
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MAJ (Join to see)
1SG (Join to see), all great points man. I agree with all of them. What I was referring to is not when people use rank as a term of endearment or even just a shortcut. I'm referring to those times when people stress someone's rank as a way to put them in thier place or make them feel like they are less important because as a person or that thier opinion is worth less solely based on thier current rank.
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At OCS, I accidentally said "Good morning, Captain." I had forgotten the officer's name, and didn't say "Captain XXX." This being OCS, and he being a less-than-gracious cadre member, I was promptly, amid many F'ings, informed that unless I outranked him that he was either "sir" or "Captain XXX." Since then, I've never made that mistake.
Another thing I always do is refer to everyone except other Captains by their rank and name. don't mind it when senior officers call me 'Mike'; however, I don't call subordinates by their first name because they can't reciprocate. I do, however, call other Captains by their first name because we're peers. I was told once, though, that if a senior officer calls you by your first name, that means that he/she has a trust in you and that you're in good standing. He said that this was especially true if you noticed that he/she didn't call your peers by their first name.
Another thing I always do is refer to everyone except other Captains by their rank and name. don't mind it when senior officers call me 'Mike'; however, I don't call subordinates by their first name because they can't reciprocate. I do, however, call other Captains by their first name because we're peers. I was told once, though, that if a senior officer calls you by your first name, that means that he/she has a trust in you and that you're in good standing. He said that this was especially true if you noticed that he/she didn't call your peers by their first name.
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You should really do what is the cultural norm for the Army. You must do what the regulation directs. They are the same in this regard. As you have noted, it is in 600-20. To do otherwise; you are breaking the rules. Why join if you did not want to play the game... in its entirety?
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MAJ (Join to see)
SGT Jonathan Williams, the 'cultural norm' in the Army has been proven over and over to be a bad thing. The cultural norm when I joined the Army was to bash those of other races, gender, or sexual preference. The cultural norm in the Army is often to belittle those Soldiers that are not your same MOS/branch or are not in the same unit as you. The cultural norm in the Army lead to the Army NEEDED to spend millions of dollars training Soldiers how to show respect for others and maintain self control, to avoiding sexual harassment and sexual assault.
I have never just gone with the cultural norm and I believe that the Army is a better place because of the people who do not.
People join the military for many different reasons. Being talked down to is not a reason that I've ever heard. They could be disrespected at home.
I have never just gone with the cultural norm and I believe that the Army is a better place because of the people who do not.
People join the military for many different reasons. Being talked down to is not a reason that I've ever heard. They could be disrespected at home.
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SGT Jonathan Williams
Please note that I did not tell you that you should sexually harass, degrade, or belittle anyone. If those were cultural norms, I note they are changed, or changing (EO, SHARP). When you take one or two items that are norms to posit that "all norms are bad" you argue a fallacy. It is not valid or cogent. The norm of calling Soldiers by rank is good, and does many things in a military culture. It identifies someone as part of a larger system, and acknowledges their place in that system. Does not 600-20 speak of EO and belittling (hazing)? You don't get to pick and choose the rules. If you joined, you did agree to do what is required of you. I challenge you to keep that faith, that promise.
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MAJ (Join to see)
SGT Jonathan Williams, I purposefully used extreme examples to make a point. Please refer to your initial comment:
"You should really do what is the cultural norm for the Army --- Why join if you did not want to play the game... in its entirety?"
"You should really do what is the cultural norm for the Army --- Why join if you did not want to play the game... in its entirety?"
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In spite of occasional evidence to the contrary, I believe that rank at any grade has been earned, and therefor should be respected. Beyond this though, I think that no matter what rank a person holds, they are due professional treatment. Just me growing up with the Golden Rule perhaps, but I try to treat others as people with rank, rather than simply rank.
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Sir,
I think I get where you are coming from, but correct me if I'm wrong. You are more referring to the tone in which these ranks are used, which can tend to make them sound like a derogatory term. This is not acceptable, but as another stated, taking the rank itself as derogatory is part of a growing trend that I find disturbing. Yes, these individuals are at the bottom of the food chain, but this does not make their overall worth less than any other. I have had to explain this to my subordinates on a couple occasions.
Am I correct also in understanding that when you say you don't call E-1 through E-4 or O-1 through O-2 by their ranks, you mean that you use their last names only? To me, that is a familiarity thing, and completely understandable. But to do so because you see the rank itself as derogatory is feeding into the wrong idea about the beginning ranks.
As for calling Captains and above, or SNCOs, by their rank only, I've seen (and done) this on any number of occasions. As stated, it is the tone of the address that shows respect or disrespect. If someone addresses me as Master Sergeant, I answer. It's my title.
I think I get where you are coming from, but correct me if I'm wrong. You are more referring to the tone in which these ranks are used, which can tend to make them sound like a derogatory term. This is not acceptable, but as another stated, taking the rank itself as derogatory is part of a growing trend that I find disturbing. Yes, these individuals are at the bottom of the food chain, but this does not make their overall worth less than any other. I have had to explain this to my subordinates on a couple occasions.
Am I correct also in understanding that when you say you don't call E-1 through E-4 or O-1 through O-2 by their ranks, you mean that you use their last names only? To me, that is a familiarity thing, and completely understandable. But to do so because you see the rank itself as derogatory is feeding into the wrong idea about the beginning ranks.
As for calling Captains and above, or SNCOs, by their rank only, I've seen (and done) this on any number of occasions. As stated, it is the tone of the address that shows respect or disrespect. If someone addresses me as Master Sergeant, I answer. It's my title.
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Capt (Join to see)
MSgt Joseph Doyle , I agree with your statement about familiarity. I wouldn't refer to an Airman that I'm meeting for the first time or that I didn't know very well by their last name only, without rank. That would strike me as being rude and ill-mannered.
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