Posted on Jan 21, 2015
Can addressing junior service members by rank alone be considered a derogatory term?
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Throughout my career, I have noticed that certain rank-titles have been continually used in a derogatory manner. The most glaring of these are 'Private', 'Specialist', 'Cadet', 'Lieutenant', and 'LT'.
Here are a few examples:
- "Hey ________, come here!"
- "Hurry up ________!"
- "What are you doing ________?"
You would never hear someone use those phrases to an NCO or officer of the rank of Captain or higher, especially without adding their name to their rank when addressing them, so why talk down to someone just because they're of a certain rank?
This has always bothered me; especially when it was directed at me while I was serving at each of those ranks. So, as a tiny effort, for the past 10 years or so, I have avoided using those rank-titles in a stand-alone manner.
Here are a few examples:
- "Hey ________, come here!"
- "Hurry up ________!"
- "What are you doing ________?"
You would never hear someone use those phrases to an NCO or officer of the rank of Captain or higher, especially without adding their name to their rank when addressing them, so why talk down to someone just because they're of a certain rank?
This has always bothered me; especially when it was directed at me while I was serving at each of those ranks. So, as a tiny effort, for the past 10 years or so, I have avoided using those rank-titles in a stand-alone manner.
Edited 10 y ago
Posted 11 y ago
Responses: 115
MAJ (Join to see) Understand and kudos for your wanting to show your respect to your Soldiers. I do question your disregard for Army protocol. You would e bshowing "the proper respect" if you would call your Soldiers by the rank and name instead of coming up with "personally perferred" titles. You've stated you know what the AR says about referring to Soldiers, NCOs, Officers by their rank, yet you choose to ignore it.
I was never offended when someone said to me, "Hey, First Sergeant!" or shouted to get my attention from across the street, motor pool or in the field. I was never offended if I heard them say, "HEY...TOP!"
Good move on respecting the SSG's wishes that you address him by his rank! Each and everyone of us are different in our opinions, preferences, likes and dislikes. This is one reason we have regulations that guide everything we do ...or are supposed to do.
Of the countless Soldiers who told you they appreciated it, there remains the "unknown" countless Soldiers (except 1 SSG) who do/did not appreciate. They never spoke up. Kudos to the SSG for speaking up! Even though addressing a person only by their rank isn't disrespectful, always using their name with it is showing respect and a leadership tool for both positive feedback, constructive criticism, and general conversation.
The AR is specific and there is not an appendix titled: 1LT Slaughter's perferences! If I were your 1SG I would have a conversation with you about it and if that didn't make the correction, the commander would be the next door.
Your desire is commendable...focus is yet a little blurry!
Appreciate the share! We need to hear more things like this! Good and not so good!
I was never offended when someone said to me, "Hey, First Sergeant!" or shouted to get my attention from across the street, motor pool or in the field. I was never offended if I heard them say, "HEY...TOP!"
Good move on respecting the SSG's wishes that you address him by his rank! Each and everyone of us are different in our opinions, preferences, likes and dislikes. This is one reason we have regulations that guide everything we do ...or are supposed to do.
Of the countless Soldiers who told you they appreciated it, there remains the "unknown" countless Soldiers (except 1 SSG) who do/did not appreciate. They never spoke up. Kudos to the SSG for speaking up! Even though addressing a person only by their rank isn't disrespectful, always using their name with it is showing respect and a leadership tool for both positive feedback, constructive criticism, and general conversation.
The AR is specific and there is not an appendix titled: 1LT Slaughter's perferences! If I were your 1SG I would have a conversation with you about it and if that didn't make the correction, the commander would be the next door.
Your desire is commendable...focus is yet a little blurry!
Appreciate the share! We need to hear more things like this! Good and not so good!
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MAJ (Join to see)
1SG (Join to see), thank you for your positive and thorough comment. Please allow me to clarify, I have never, nor would I address an NCO or Officer (CPT and above) as Mr/Ms/Mrs/Miss. When the SSG talked to me about it, he was referring to me addressing the privates that work with us in that manner.
As for my "disregard for Army protocol", I would say that using terms like "TOP", "LT", "Gunny", "Sarge", or "Troop" are equally outside of Army protocol, yet no one seems to have a problem with those.
As for my "disregard for Army protocol", I would say that using terms like "TOP", "LT", "Gunny", "Sarge", or "Troop" are equally outside of Army protocol, yet no one seems to have a problem with those.
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1SG (Join to see)
MAJ (Join to see) Thank you Sir, I'm tracking with you, I misunderstood, thinking the Staff Sergeant was talking about you referring to him as Mister, etc. I myself am guilty of of being outside Army protocol as you mention above...as I myself have used all those terms you mention above except for "Sarge". Good point on bringing that out, as many - many of us are guilty of those as well. Thank You for pointing that out. Looks like some of us are guilty (ME) of the same thing I was commenting to you about. If I were going to say something to you, I would also need to clean up my own backyard terminology as well.
As a Civilian employee here on Ft. Stewart, I do ensure I use proper rank titles when talking with Soldiers, NCOs and Officers. It is easy to sometimes fall back into that old comfort zone of familiarity, and I do have to pay attention to make sure I don't use Top, LT, Trooper or just plain "Soldier".
Enlightening Conversation...Thank You!
As a Civilian employee here on Ft. Stewart, I do ensure I use proper rank titles when talking with Soldiers, NCOs and Officers. It is easy to sometimes fall back into that old comfort zone of familiarity, and I do have to pay attention to make sure I don't use Top, LT, Trooper or just plain "Soldier".
Enlightening Conversation...Thank You!
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FN Rurik Schutte
As it as already been stated before. It all comes down to the tone. and yet even with the wrong tone when being spoken to can bring a feeling of pride of your rank. When I comes to using "slang" most don't mind or sometimes prefer it. I don't remember any one ever calling my E7 = Chief Petty Officer/CPO "Chief Petty Officer. An E7's (unless at an award ceremony ) is "Chief." I know that the Navy as a different "rank wording" structure .
So the question here is, when was the last time someone thought they were being called in a demeaning way when addressed as "Gunny?"
So the question here is, when was the last time someone thought they were being called in a demeaning way when addressed as "Gunny?"
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As a Medic on Sand Hill back in the early 2000's, I cannot tell you how many times I was hemmed up by the Drill Sergeants (permanent party wasn't safe back then either) for not addressing the trainees as Soldiers.
This was before ACU's and having your name conveniently sewn on the back of your headgear. Being a somewhat salty CPL at the time, it was easy to just yell out "Hey Private, come here..". As I saw it most of them were Privates anyway and hadn't attained the title of Soldier yet and I definitely had a massive rock on my shoulder being a female Medic on Sand Hill.
After MULTIPLE counseling sessions and back to back to back to back consideration of others courses it eventually got through my thick skull, that I was basically being an ass to these Soldiers. These men had enough on their plates and they just wanted to become infantrymen after we had become a nation at war. And that alone was more than commendable. I learned a bit more about the rank structure and its applicability after my 2 years there and it definitely helped me to diversify.
This was before ACU's and having your name conveniently sewn on the back of your headgear. Being a somewhat salty CPL at the time, it was easy to just yell out "Hey Private, come here..". As I saw it most of them were Privates anyway and hadn't attained the title of Soldier yet and I definitely had a massive rock on my shoulder being a female Medic on Sand Hill.
After MULTIPLE counseling sessions and back to back to back to back consideration of others courses it eventually got through my thick skull, that I was basically being an ass to these Soldiers. These men had enough on their plates and they just wanted to become infantrymen after we had become a nation at war. And that alone was more than commendable. I learned a bit more about the rank structure and its applicability after my 2 years there and it definitely helped me to diversify.
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It all boils down to context and tone. In tradoc you are supposed to call them warriors but it is often said in a demeaning tone. On the flip side I can call one of my Joe's and F-er in a tone that will make him feel complimented. Anything can be made derogatory or complimentary just in the way it is said. It's time for everyone to stop getting so boo-boo lipped.
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You raise some interesting points regarding treating others with respect. Calling an Army warrant officer or a cadet "Mr./Miss" is acceptable. Addressing a naval officer in the grades of O-1 through O-4 is acceptable as well (if you outrank him). You can call an Army warrant officer, "Chief", but if you refer to a naval warrant officer as "Chief", he/she will think you're talking to a Navy NCO.
It is an honor to serve in the military; therefore one serving should have pride in being addressed by the rank they earned. With that said, there are times when people address subordinates in ways that might convey tones to remind them of their station. Sometimes, the ranks are used to address others in contemptible ways. That is wrongfully, however, I can't help feeling as if you are trying to over correct. Sometimes addressing people by their rank can be a sign of respect, but I don't get that from your post.
When you continuously address everyone as "Mr./Miss", you risk offending those military professionals who worked to attain the rank/station which allows them to be addressed as such. Therefore, in trying to make everyone feel respected, you are disrespecting some.
I've noticed some people throw in a "Mr" or "Miss" occasionally in conversations, but is usually done in a very informal setting.
Don't call a private, corporal, or sergeant, "Mr", around Army warrants.
It is an honor to serve in the military; therefore one serving should have pride in being addressed by the rank they earned. With that said, there are times when people address subordinates in ways that might convey tones to remind them of their station. Sometimes, the ranks are used to address others in contemptible ways. That is wrongfully, however, I can't help feeling as if you are trying to over correct. Sometimes addressing people by their rank can be a sign of respect, but I don't get that from your post.
When you continuously address everyone as "Mr./Miss", you risk offending those military professionals who worked to attain the rank/station which allows them to be addressed as such. Therefore, in trying to make everyone feel respected, you are disrespecting some.
I've noticed some people throw in a "Mr" or "Miss" occasionally in conversations, but is usually done in a very informal setting.
Don't call a private, corporal, or sergeant, "Mr", around Army warrants.
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When I worked in a Multinational Brigade Headquarters in Afghanistan a few years ago, the use of rank only when addressing anyone was extremely common, however, as a Major, when someone said, "Hey Major" or "OK Major" or "Major, why do you say that?" I always felt as if I was in trouble!
BTW, I never felt being called "LT" was derogatory!
BTW, I never felt being called "LT" was derogatory!
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I went to a unique elementary school where we had acting classes as part of the regular daily schedule. One of our teachers regularly reminded us that it's not so much what you say, it's how you say it. As long as the tone you use when you refer to someone by rank is the same level of respect you would expect them to give you, I don't see a problem with it. Apparently in Air Force basic they started getting people to call everyone air and ma'am regardless of rank, I had a new airman come in from tech school and call me ma'am for months(same rank as me) took months for him to use my name.
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You should a sailor how they feel about the word shipmate sometime. Some things will never change.
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Being addressed by rank doesn't bother me at all. I earned it. In the Marine Corps, we address everyone by full rank all the time. It's not just Sgt, It's Staff Sgt, or Gunny, or Master Sgt, Etc.
However, when addressing a junior Marine, I always tried to address them by rank AND name. They are both a Marine and a person. It has been my experience that my seniors would always give me direction that way as well. Very seldom was I addressed solely by my rank (from the top down).
So as an example:
Sgt K: "Corporal Schmukatelli, come here!"
"Hurry up PFC Shitbird!"
Again, it doesn't bother me. But, it's always trying to maintain that balance of tact, professionalism, setting an example. etc.
However, when addressing a junior Marine, I always tried to address them by rank AND name. They are both a Marine and a person. It has been my experience that my seniors would always give me direction that way as well. Very seldom was I addressed solely by my rank (from the top down).
So as an example:
Sgt K: "Corporal Schmukatelli, come here!"
"Hurry up PFC Shitbird!"
Again, it doesn't bother me. But, it's always trying to maintain that balance of tact, professionalism, setting an example. etc.
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Rank, is rank, we are not all equal. If you do not like the title to the rank you currently are at, then work hard and promote and you will get the rank you have earned with the title commensurate with that.
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1SG David Niles
Well first Lieut. Christopher slaughter you now have a few more that you can try out before retirement
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Attitude and tone of voice are far more indicative than the word itself. Anyone who has heard an annoyed 'Gunny' address an errant officer knows what I mean. "Mister" or any rank title can be one of the most insulting terms there is......... **grin** That's funny but it's true!
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