Posted on May 11, 2023
Can I be denied receiving a 'Go' for a promotion board if I accidentally use gender pronouns? Should I get the IG involved?
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I recently just attended the E-5 promotion board and absolutely nailed it. Uniform, confidence, presence was on point. Answered questions correctly and to the best of my ability. Walked out of the board feeling like a million bucks. I am waiting for my sponsor to come out, and he says I received a 'No-Go' because on the first question I was asked I referred to a soldier as "he should" instead of "the soldier should." This apparently was the decision that prevented me from being promotable according to my sponsor, despite answering the other 9 questions I was asked to a T.
Is there anything on Army regulation about this? Should I get the IG involved? What if this belief is against my religion and I don't agree with it? I know the SGM has a transgender kid. I do not want to cave to using these terms if it does not align with my beliefs. I know the worlds' headed in this direction but this seems absolutely insane to me that despite acing a board, I can be prevented from promoting due to using gender pronouns. What
Is there anything on Army regulation about this? Should I get the IG involved? What if this belief is against my religion and I don't agree with it? I know the SGM has a transgender kid. I do not want to cave to using these terms if it does not align with my beliefs. I know the worlds' headed in this direction but this seems absolutely insane to me that despite acing a board, I can be prevented from promoting due to using gender pronouns. What
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 148
Been retired since 94, so not up to date, but can you ask for a copy of the board’s decision? If so, it might answer your question. From my 90s perspective, seems to be a CS decision to make…best of luck with this.
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The military's prime objective is to win wars and the hell with political correctness. The military is not a social experiment. Regardless of you saying he, she, or something made up... that's pointless and those involved have nothing else to do but have their heads so far up their ass is inconceivable. UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES is this supposed to be used against you. Not every military job has women in the ranks. Yes, to cover your butt, "The soldier" would have been safer as the military has been letting women join for decades. However, where is the UCMJ code that actually states "one must use the proper gender pronouns at all times." I aso mean, not the standard "Sir for men/Maam for women or rank" but the made up stuff. Don't use the "Refusal to follow orders argument". Any such order is illegal as it is detrimental to unit morale and removes focus from the actual objective. Does one need to be ordered not to kill or steal from fellow servicemembers? No. Those are separate charges. All this woke BS just so the top brass/enlisted involved can brown nose thier way to the next rank. I know I'm an E-5 and there are some high ranking officers here, some maybe still active, but there are enough old-school vets who will likely side with me on this. We are in a position we will be getting marched over by China or some other country if they try to invade because they are going to use the political propaganda as a weakness. Do not cave to the woke mob. Regardless if the SGM has a "transgender" kid makes no difference on whether the SGM can actually perform the required duites of the position. Seems like they can't if they are bowing down to this crap. As for a religious argument, were you asked to accept policies that fly in the face of scientific logic and religious teachings? Pretty much a given since day 1 nowadays. When DADT was repealled, they stated in the briefings, that we could use a religious exemption to the new policies. I knew that would be a farce because they would find another way around the policy to make your life hell. I chose to get out months later because it was the top of the downward slide we were marching towards and I wanted no part of it.
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I've been out since 2013, I know things have changed. Has a DOD, or Army directive been issued forbidding the use of gender pronouns?
If not, is there a local policy?
If not, and the senior enlisted sitting the board allowed what you allege.. That senior enlisted has failed you as a leader. And there is little you can do about it... the promotion board is a highly subjective thing.. you can pass or fail at the whims and feelings of those sitting the board.
So even if you speak to your commander, and then make an IG complaint.. You might get a re-board out of it... But do you think that same senior leader is going to "feel" you are ready for promotion the next time?
My advice as someone how went through many boards sat on many boards, had to get senior to me people to do what I wanted them to do.........Tell your 1SG you understand the mistake you made at the last board, and tell him you will get it right the next time, just give you a chance to prove it.
Nail the board and get the recommendation for promotion you need, get promoted and then make a difference, lead and be the NCO you think your unit needs.
If not, is there a local policy?
If not, and the senior enlisted sitting the board allowed what you allege.. That senior enlisted has failed you as a leader. And there is little you can do about it... the promotion board is a highly subjective thing.. you can pass or fail at the whims and feelings of those sitting the board.
So even if you speak to your commander, and then make an IG complaint.. You might get a re-board out of it... But do you think that same senior leader is going to "feel" you are ready for promotion the next time?
My advice as someone how went through many boards sat on many boards, had to get senior to me people to do what I wanted them to do.........Tell your 1SG you understand the mistake you made at the last board, and tell him you will get it right the next time, just give you a chance to prove it.
Nail the board and get the recommendation for promotion you need, get promoted and then make a difference, lead and be the NCO you think your unit needs.
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We must all bow and genuflect in the presence of our overwhelming numbers of Liberals and their lockstep speech/mind/thinking control. The only thing I can see wrong with this is what if we find ourselves facing an enemy that does not care about political correctness? What if they win?
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Some of these comments are so subjective. One standard should fit all. From one unit to the next, policies should enforce, promote and ensure an action or task. Wokeness in the military will be the downfall of the United States. Just my opinion from a family with 200+ years of active duty in all the branches.
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I can see “depending” on how the question was asked see why they wanted it stated as “the soldier should”… first instance would be we are “all” soldiers so if it wasn’t related to a specific gender THAT could be why they wanted to hear the soldier… vs he should, because if there are male AND females that could do that MOS etc that would be why they wanted SM. Because male/female ARE SM’s not just him. But now if the question was related to a gender specific ie a male SM then yes, that’d be totally wrong for them to gig you for “he should”. Not knowing how/what the question was is kind of difficult to say yes or no they are wrong. “Just my two pennies for the day”
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If this two start gets axed for one "offside" commit, what do you think any enlisted will fair better?
The U.S. Army yanked Maj. Gen. Ryan Gonsalves‘ nomination to a third star because it determined that he called a female congressional staffer “sweetheart,” according to Stars and Stripes. This violated the Army Command Policy’s rule on “dignity and respect.”.
8 Jan 2018.
The U.S. Army yanked Maj. Gen. Ryan Gonsalves‘ nomination to a third star because it determined that he called a female congressional staffer “sweetheart,” according to Stars and Stripes. This violated the Army Command Policy’s rule on “dignity and respect.”.
8 Jan 2018.
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Old post, but IF this was true, you should absolutely go to the IG, to Congress, to a bunch of organizations.
However, my gut tells me this is 100% a troll.
However, my gut tells me this is 100% a troll.
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Nothing personal, but I'm definitely calling bullshit. There's no way in hell you failed a promotion board just because you used "gendered language." Either the board is only giving your sponsor a part of the story, your sponsor only gave you part of the story, or you're only giving us part of the story. Either way, there's a hell of a lot of information being left out of this.
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Wow. If you stopped after your first paragraph, I'd be thinking you were treated unreasonably because of a slip of the tongue--forgivable because "he" was historically the grammatically correct choice, and maybe you grew up where and when it still was. But your second paragraph convinces me otherwise.
What you seem to be saying is that its against your religion to respect other people who you disagree with, and therefore you have to poke them in the eye with a verbal stick at every opportunity. I'm not religious, but if I'm having dinner at a table where people want to say grace, I don't start eating until they do and I don't talk while they're saying grace, simply out of respect for them as fellow human beings. I think it's silly to want to be referred to as "they" but if that's what someone want to be called, I try to accomodate them, the same way I try to remember not to call someone "Phil" if he prefers to be called "Phillip" or vice versa. It's just a matter of common courtesy. You might want to consider doing the same.
What you seem to be saying is that its against your religion to respect other people who you disagree with, and therefore you have to poke them in the eye with a verbal stick at every opportunity. I'm not religious, but if I'm having dinner at a table where people want to say grace, I don't start eating until they do and I don't talk while they're saying grace, simply out of respect for them as fellow human beings. I think it's silly to want to be referred to as "they" but if that's what someone want to be called, I try to accomodate them, the same way I try to remember not to call someone "Phil" if he prefers to be called "Phillip" or vice versa. It's just a matter of common courtesy. You might want to consider doing the same.
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