Posted on Sep 2, 2020
Can I be forced to shave if I have a shaving profile?
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What’s up everybody I’m pv2 jones and I been in the army a little over 9 months, I love serving until it comes to shaving. I’ve tried everything and my face bumps up terrible man I’m talking about it looks disgusting, plenty of my Drill Sgts in AIT tried teaching me how to shave but it doesn’t work. So I just got to my new unit about 2 and a half months ago and I was still shaving even though it was painful and it looked Terrible, one day an NCO From another unit told me that I NEED to go get a shaving profile because my face just looks terrible and she can tell I was in pain so I promised her I will go get one and have them check it out . After my first appointment the dermatologist gave me a permanent shaving profile and told me that I don’t need to shave atleast until my bumps are clear. So a few weeks go by and I have a little beard (still in regulation 1/4 of an inch) so After pt my squad leader pulls me to The side and starts cursing me out at the top of his lungs saying I need to shave , I told him respectfully I have a shaving profile and it hurts for me to shave he stares at me and replied Under his breath “like every other black person in the army that can’t use razors” I didn’t say anything but it kind of hurt because I don’t want to be a odd ball in my company (I’m in a infantry company btw) so later that day we go into work to clean weapons and he calls me over and apologizes about this morning and I told him it was ok he then said that I need to shave still if I want to make it in the military and I replied and told him I’m not shaving so he can F’ing forget about it he then told me since I cursed him my punishment will be to shave or receive a article for disrespecting a NCO so later I went to my barracks room and shaved during lunch and came back in he then told me that no matter what my profile says I need to listen to him and shave I told my platoon sgt about this whole Situation and he told me I need to listen to my squad leader and shave because the army just gives shaving profiles to anyone. Is this right?
Platoon Sergeant
Platoon Leader
Commander
CCMSgt
NCO Academy
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 254
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No it's not. If you have a written medical diagnosis from a licensed doctor and it's in your medical file, they can't do or say anything about it. Stuff like that isn't given out to everyone, there is a reason why. For the cursing, the most that can be done is a counseling chit, no more unless it got physical.
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Suspended Profile
Short answer is yes. In my experience people with a “shave profile” or a “no shave chit” can still be forced to shave the areas that aren’t infected or inflamed.
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First of all, you showed excellent restraint when he made the racist comments! Your profile overrides what your squad leader says and he should know that. Take it up to your platoon sergeant and as others have said, make sure your CO signs the profile.
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While it is understandable, cursing and loosing your temper never helps. The Squad leader was wrong and when I was the medical platoon Sgt in the guards, if I'd run into this situation, I would have over ruled the Squad leader and spoke privately with him. If I could verify the under the breath comment I'd reflect it on the Squad leaders evaluation and take sterner action. Hopefully both individuals would learn from the experience and become better soldiers. I was a Hospital corpsman with the Marines and we gave shaving profiles and they were necessary, Most of the Marines were able to use techniques which allowed them to shave, however it is time consuming and not an easy task. Another suggestion is for the PV2 to learn from this and as he raises in the ranks be sure he never makes the same mistake this Squad leader made. You can learn from the Good leaders as well as from the Bad.
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SSG John Justin
I also ran into a similar but different situation in my early career. The situation left me the impression the senior NCO was a jerk until I was stationed with him two years later and found out that he got the worse of the situation (priviatly). and that he had turned out to be a much better leader and we became friends.
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First - if you look at my picture you can see I am WHITE! I have been able to shave without a problem most of my life and that is fine for ME, but it has nothing to do with your skin condition and neither does your RACE. My Nephew is whiter than I am, if he goes into the sun he BURNS just like his dad did. My Greek heritage allows me to TAN, not burn. Genetics often determines what we can and cannot do, unfortunately, your NCO and his racism have nothing to do with genetics he was raised to hate people different than him.
My Nephew CANNOT SHAVE close. If he does he looks like what you describe so he has a short beard and wishes he could be clean-shaven. As I said, he is white so that skin condition has nothing to do with race!
Shaving, as I said has nothing to do with race and your NCO is a racist! If he had said you and every other lazy SOB, he would have been safe, but he is a RACIST! and there is no doubt in my mind. If you did not report him he will ride you out of the Army, not just your squad.
Take this up your chain of command.
My Nephew CANNOT SHAVE close. If he does he looks like what you describe so he has a short beard and wishes he could be clean-shaven. As I said, he is white so that skin condition has nothing to do with race!
Shaving, as I said has nothing to do with race and your NCO is a racist! If he had said you and every other lazy SOB, he would have been safe, but he is a RACIST! and there is no doubt in my mind. If you did not report him he will ride you out of the Army, not just your squad.
Take this up your chain of command.
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Everyone has rights, when you are counseled you wright “I do not concur” then you explain why. Like the fact that you have a skin condition and were given a no shaving profile by your doctor. Give the doctors name that signed your profile. You can also write the racial comment that was made and that you plan to talk to the EO to make a complaint. Then you inform him that your taking it up the chain of command to get the situation resolved. Never sign a counseling statement with out putting your rebuttal and make sure you write “I do not concur”
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As a former Marine and current barber, I will tell you: No! A shaving chit/profile is a MEDICAL document and you can not be made to shave… BUT, if you’re not shaving because you don’t know how, you need to learn. If you’re not shaving because you have pseudofoliculitis barbae (nasty, painful ingrown hairs) then I would suggest trying a foil shaver like the Wahl Finale. If foil shavers still bump you up, then a good barber quality trimmer is the move! I would suggest a Babyliss GoldFX or a Wahl Detailer. They both cut super close (shape up/line up trimmers) and are cordless. You may have to run it over your face maybe twice a day, but it will make your face AND command relations smoother! Good luck
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The regs & your doctor who gave you the profile should have told you what is required & allowed.
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I don't know the policy but as a Medic, a skin irritation get get severe enough to scar and cause infections.
There's always a solution for almost any problem. LIkely, your facial hair doesn't all grow in the same way. You'll have to 'feel' for where it does and where it changes. Shave appropriately. Don't force a blade against your skin. It's sad they are costly but dull blades will make it worse.
There are gels that you can use instead of cream that help the blade cut easier and reduce friction against the skin. I'd advise you to seek the Medics about something better. It can take a long time to heal from it.
https://www.healthline.com/health/razor-bumps#home-remedies
There's always a solution for almost any problem. LIkely, your facial hair doesn't all grow in the same way. You'll have to 'feel' for where it does and where it changes. Shave appropriately. Don't force a blade against your skin. It's sad they are costly but dull blades will make it worse.
There are gels that you can use instead of cream that help the blade cut easier and reduce friction against the skin. I'd advise you to seek the Medics about something better. It can take a long time to heal from it.
https://www.healthline.com/health/razor-bumps#home-remedies
Pseudofolliculitis Barbae: Treatment, Causes, Prevention, and More
Pseudofolliculitis barbae, or razor bumps, can be irritating and may lead to complications if not treated. Here's what you can do.
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I'll give you a story I had. I was on an aircraft carrier and I got into my bunk. I slammed my head into some piping and hurt myself bad enough to make me fall and question whether I gave myself brain damage or not. This guy who outranks me and has never been friendly with me in even the slightest starts laughing and mocking me. I curse him out for a solid 30 seconds. Suddenly this guy has rank over me and we need to talk with respect unlike the second before when he was mocking me. Tried to use that crap about disrespecting higher ranked people and that I better apologize to him and make some serious corrections to my attitude. I told him to screw himself and that we will be talking in a bit.
I went straight to my LPO and explained what that douche bag did and within an hour the douche bag was looking for me to apologize for his conduct. Obviously the issue was dropped after that. He learned his lesson. The sad part of it is if he had even once talked to me like a human being rather than as scum who was beneath him (mind you I could have killed him if I wanted to) I would have taken his laughing and mocking me without anger.
Don't EVER let some douche bag tell you they have power over you because you disrespected them and they are a higher rank. They want respect then they can effing earn it. You gave him his due respect for his rank when you explained the situation. He lost that respect with his conduct. Next time call them out on their bluff. Take it up the chain of command. As long as your leadership doesn't fail you (it does happen, but it's rare), they will stop abusive behavior like that.
I went straight to my LPO and explained what that douche bag did and within an hour the douche bag was looking for me to apologize for his conduct. Obviously the issue was dropped after that. He learned his lesson. The sad part of it is if he had even once talked to me like a human being rather than as scum who was beneath him (mind you I could have killed him if I wanted to) I would have taken his laughing and mocking me without anger.
Don't EVER let some douche bag tell you they have power over you because you disrespected them and they are a higher rank. They want respect then they can effing earn it. You gave him his due respect for his rank when you explained the situation. He lost that respect with his conduct. Next time call them out on their bluff. Take it up the chain of command. As long as your leadership doesn't fail you (it does happen, but it's rare), they will stop abusive behavior like that.
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