Posted on Jan 12, 2019
Can jump status be pulled for failing a PT test?
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My new 1SG has informed the company that he will be terminating jump statuses for all APFT failures. Is this something he can do? Where can I find a list of requirements to maintain jump status?
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XVIII ABN Corps
Paratrooper
XVIII ABN Corps Paratrooper
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 20
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Look, Corps is divided into HHC and HQUSAG, HHC has most the jump slots, HQUSAG has very few- all he has to do is to swap you from 1 company to another, hell you probably would be working in the same staff section. Bottom line why the hell can't you folks pass a simple damn AFPT?
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SPC Mara Manzer (Spurgin)
If you are unavailable to pass your AFPT then you are not physically able to do the things a soldier is required to be able to do. That being said, what purpose does it serve to keep you in a unit that would allow you to maintain "jump status"?
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Pardon me for being obtuse... why can’t you pass your PFT?
Geez dude... show some pride. Instead of researching ‘barracks lawyer’ ways around it get off your dead ass & run a little in your down-time
Geez dude... show some pride. Instead of researching ‘barracks lawyer’ ways around it get off your dead ass & run a little in your down-time
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SPC Mara Manzer (Spurgin)
Amen! Instead of posting on Rally Point asking people where you can find "a list of requirements to maintain jump status" you could be using that time to do the work necessary to pass the AFPT... I am talking about PT, good ole fashioned PT. I mean, you KNOW what those requirements are so what more do you need?
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SGT(P) Michael H.
LTC Jeff Shearer - See my post above. When I worked with SF as support I had the 2 hip surgeries (what bumped me from the Q), but I made sure to come back strong. They instilled in me that mindset to drive on no matter what. Cheers! Doc
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SPC (Join to see)
I have more specific details in my reply hopefully it helps you to provide a more on track response the second time around. Thank you.
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You are an E-4 and should never fail a PT test. If you fail a PT test, you are not keeping up with your job requirements and do not deserve to keep your jump status. How can someone not pass an AFPT?
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Sgt (Join to see)
SPC (Join to see) - I am not providing you with support for a dumb post. Your First Sergeant has told you the requirements, so comply. I say again, as an E4, you should not be on here asking this type of question. My question is, how can you fail an APFT?
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MAJ (Join to see)
SPC (Join to see) - I think you got your response, pass the APFT. You do realize the next step is your chapter from the Army, and somehow you are worried about jump status? You have a significant misalignment of priorities, and your sarcastic comment above, while a clear attempt to be witty, is so full of grammar and spelling errors that you really just appear to be a whiny, arrogant, entitled, SPC who doesn't meet the Army standards.
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Sgt (Join to see)
SPC (Join to see) - There is no shortage of poor leadership in the military and civilian worlds. In this case pulling jump status for failing an APFT is the right call because you are not keeping up with the requirement of the job. A PT test is nothing compared to what you will go through when deployed. I want the men around me to be capable of covering my back as I will cover their back.
During my civilian career, we had random drug tests that everyone was well aware of, and were part of the job requirment. Still, we had folks that failed these tests and were fired. I served four years and really did not encounter too many poor leaders. During my civilian career, there were plenty of really bad leaders, and you just have to carry on and complete the mission.
My last boss would call weekly staff meetings that would last over an hour. He would spend five minutes talking business and the rest would be B.S. I would submit detailed weekly activity reports, so he knew what I was doing every week. I was working 60 hour weeks, and did not like these time wasting meetings. I would schedule one of my own meetings at the same time as his, so that I would miss his meetings. He moved his meeting time, so I moved the time of one of my meetings. He finally asked me if I was intentinally trying to avoid his staff meetings. With the program winding down, he was laid off, and I replaced him.
There are plenty of bad leaders around, but we control our actions. We should always put forth our best effort to accomplish the mission.
During my civilian career, we had random drug tests that everyone was well aware of, and were part of the job requirment. Still, we had folks that failed these tests and were fired. I served four years and really did not encounter too many poor leaders. During my civilian career, there were plenty of really bad leaders, and you just have to carry on and complete the mission.
My last boss would call weekly staff meetings that would last over an hour. He would spend five minutes talking business and the rest would be B.S. I would submit detailed weekly activity reports, so he knew what I was doing every week. I was working 60 hour weeks, and did not like these time wasting meetings. I would schedule one of my own meetings at the same time as his, so that I would miss his meetings. He moved his meeting time, so I moved the time of one of my meetings. He finally asked me if I was intentinally trying to avoid his staff meetings. With the program winding down, he was laid off, and I replaced him.
There are plenty of bad leaders around, but we control our actions. We should always put forth our best effort to accomplish the mission.
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Your "Wings" are yours you earned them. As for your "Jump Status" as SGM Frazer said it depends on duty assignement and that can be taken away. If you are reassigned to a non-jump position then you would be removed from status and your jump pay would be terminated. The easilest solution for retaining your status and jump pay is to pass your APFT.
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SPC (Join to see)
Thank you as I was mentioning my pt test is no worry my 1SG is thanks for your on point and assistive answer.
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Shouldn't one be worried about passing a PT test and staying in the army more than their jump status?
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SPC (Join to see)
You would think so but instead in today’s army’s we have to worry about covering ourselves from an abusive chain of command. I assure my Physical Readiness is always forefront in my mind so I have the time to ask such questions.
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MAJ (Join to see)
SPC (Join to see) - No need to worry about an abusive chain of command if you meet the standards. It's not abuse to enforce the Army standards.
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Matthew I spent the majority of my 20+ on jump status, I always past the APFT. During my time in it was never even discussed. If someone failed that was one of the first things that happened automatically. Fortunately it did not occur to often, the way I saw if you did not think enough of your job and the unit to do a little PT you were obviously in the wrong place. If we took anyone off jump status for anything other than an injury they were told that was minimum standards and not pass was unacceptable. Get it together or get out.
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SPC (Join to see)
I appreciate your comment and explanation that it is an actual course of action or is not a concern of mine I was just curious as to any rules/regulations perhaps you have an AR to follow up with with the afformentioned list.
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Pass the APFT, and there won't be a problem.......
I fully support your 1SG and would have his back straight to the Corps Commander.
If you can't meet the basic standards, you are a risk to your team, your squad, and all of the units around you.
Step up, or step out.
SPC (Join to see) as an E4, I would be looking at you, to show me your leadership skills..... by turning those NoGo's into Go's.
A good leader will help those affected meet the standard; not look for some sort of regulation to hide behind.....
Because bottom Line: Those failure, represent a risk to you and your unit when you go down range.
I fully support your 1SG and would have his back straight to the Corps Commander.
If you can't meet the basic standards, you are a risk to your team, your squad, and all of the units around you.
Step up, or step out.
SPC (Join to see) as an E4, I would be looking at you, to show me your leadership skills..... by turning those NoGo's into Go's.
A good leader will help those affected meet the standard; not look for some sort of regulation to hide behind.....
Because bottom Line: Those failure, represent a risk to you and your unit when you go down range.
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SPC (Join to see)
Thank you for the best response I’ve gotten. My PT is not a concern I assure you. I just wished to know if this was something that could be done. Thank you for the in depth explanation and advice. You would t happen to have an AR or anything to go with that would you?
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CPT Ray Gilmore
SPC (Join to see) how about AR 600-8-2 was published May 11 2016.
- Failure to comply with physical fitness or weight control standards.
Can flag the soldier, from any favorable action, and with command support can easily have him/her transferred to another unit with non-status.
I've been out for almost a decade, and know that failure to meet the standard, can have all sorts of repercussions.
- Failure to comply with physical fitness or weight control standards.
Can flag the soldier, from any favorable action, and with command support can easily have him/her transferred to another unit with non-status.
I've been out for almost a decade, and know that failure to meet the standard, can have all sorts of repercussions.
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A little advice from an old guy who came into the military at the tender age of 32...Get off your ass and make sure you ALWAYS pass your APFT!! There is NO EXCUSE for a young E4 to be failing a PT test unless there is some kind of underlying physical ailment that has been documented by the appropriate authorities. That being said, even then it is still no damn excuse. Hell, I underwent THREE major shoulder surgeries - including both shoulders 2 on R and 1 on left -, TWO major hip surgeries on the same hip (1 yr and 8 months apart), major stomach surgery, injuries to my neck AND back (from airborne operations!) and I only failed ONE PT test (EVER) just prior to the first hip surgery. After that they were ALL passed. So, I reiterate what others have stated...get off your ass during your down time, turn off the f-ing video games, stop drinking all weekend, and go GET SOME, son! NO EXCUSES!! Old man, out!
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SPC (Join to see)
I appreciate it I agree NO REASON AT ALL! I have overcome multiple injuries and am overcoming respiratory issues and have never scored below a 280! I get some almost everyday. However I can’t get enough REGULATIONS!
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Simply put pass your APFT. It isn't hard if you are having difficulty in an area due to a medical condition get checked out recover and pass it. As for removal of status yes he can.
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SPC (Join to see)
Thank you agreed I struggled with respiratory issues have overcome and excelled pt is not a concern of mine. Regulations however are.
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SPC (Join to see)
I’m fine no worries for me. Our new 1SG is just very against regulations, I don’t wish to violate his privacy in this post. However he has been proven to bend or make up regulations frequently. But the company as a whole, to include team/Squad leaders of mine, can not find answers on if that’s something he has the authority to do.
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Maj Rob Drury
SPC (Join to see) What the hell is happening to the military? When I entered, you were nothing more than US government property; a resource to be used as Uncle Sam and his appointed authorities saw fit. By the time I left, service members had all kinds of "rights." If they didn't like the way they were treated, or Heaven forbid, were expected to maintain any sort of performance standard, they just wrote a note to the IG and had their commander fried. Does mission readiness and effectiveness even matter any more?
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SPC (Join to see)
Maj Rob Drury
It matters highly to myself. As does the rules and regulations this army was built on. I am certain you as well expect those standards to be upheld by all service members.
It matters highly to myself. As does the rules and regulations this army was built on. I am certain you as well expect those standards to be upheld by all service members.
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Yes; under Para 1-31 of AR 600-8-22, c (b), The Commander (at the 1SGs recommendation) can sideline you until you meet the standard. The commander can also start the revocation of your Airborne Badge process if you fail to maintain the standard and are terminated from airborne status.
In 30 years of service I never failed an APFT regardless of whether I was sick, or stove up (of course I can now predict the weather better than a meteorologist according to how bad my knees, back and neck ache).
In 30 years of service I never failed an APFT regardless of whether I was sick, or stove up (of course I can now predict the weather better than a meteorologist according to how bad my knees, back and neck ache).
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AR 40-501
5–5. Medical fitness standards for retention for Airborne duty, Ranger duty, and Special Forces duty
Retention of an individual in Airborne duty, Ranger duty, and Special Forces duty will be based on—
a. His or her continued demonstrated ability to perform satisfactorily his or her duty as an Airborne officer or enlisted Soldier, Ranger, or Special Forces member.
b. The effect upon the individual's health and well-being by remaining on Airborne, Ranger, or Special Forces duty.
That is a tremendous amount of leeway to pull someone's jump status. Failure of the APFT would not be performing their duties satisfactorily as an Airborne Soldier.
I am still of the belief worrying about one's jump status should be the least of concerns when failing the APFT.
5–5. Medical fitness standards for retention for Airborne duty, Ranger duty, and Special Forces duty
Retention of an individual in Airborne duty, Ranger duty, and Special Forces duty will be based on—
a. His or her continued demonstrated ability to perform satisfactorily his or her duty as an Airborne officer or enlisted Soldier, Ranger, or Special Forces member.
b. The effect upon the individual's health and well-being by remaining on Airborne, Ranger, or Special Forces duty.
That is a tremendous amount of leeway to pull someone's jump status. Failure of the APFT would not be performing their duties satisfactorily as an Airborne Soldier.
I am still of the belief worrying about one's jump status should be the least of concerns when failing the APFT.
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Just read this question and the posts. Some really good answers so far. As you can plainly see, your focus should be on passing the PT test. You say your PT isn't an issue but that's obviously not true. I'll give you my answer as a Company Commander. If a soldier doesn't pass the APFT they can expect to receive no favorable action. Zero. Go ahead and keep looking up regulations. At the end of the day, everyone who sees your question sees it coming from someone who has failed the APFT and is upset about it. They will stop there. The ability to get back on jump status is in your hands, not some regulation.
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Don’t think too have that type of power they can flag you and put you on a pt program to help you to pass your pt test
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I would like to add another comment on this. Your rank is Specialist. That is not just a meaningless name of a rank. Here is a very comprehensive definition of what a specialist is: "One who has acquired knowledge and skills through study and practice over the years, in a particular field or subject, to the extent that his or her opinion may be helpful in fact finding, problem solving, or understanding of a situation." Do you think that you fit the bill?
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SPC (Join to see)
I absolutely do minus the Years part. Not in today’s army you can’t ride your rank out. I love this site because when you’ve exhausted all options this is where you d SPC and NCO’s can come to discus answers and theory’s. It’s a shame this place has changed into a US vs THEM environment. It should be a positive tool to assist with military information gathering at any level. Would t you agree?
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SPC Mara Manzer (Spurgin)
SPC (Join to see) I think that it is up to us all to select the information that is the most helpful and constructive.
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Well SPC Dirt Bag pass you APFT so that type of decision wouldn't have to be made you substandard mouth breather!!!
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Absolutely. You already run the risk of knee injury. If not in shape it's negligence on their part to alllow you to jump
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I'm sorry but this is hilarious and why I am commissioning. I cannot deal with this type of special
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LTC (Join to see)
1LT (Join to see) trust me on the officer side you have to then do the paperwork.....not always greener on the other side.
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Reading is a powerful tool. All I will say to that is that failure to gather information leads to failure as a whole. Thomas Sowell states it takes considerable knowledge to realize the extent of your own ignorance. As previously stated I have no problems with passing a PT test. My problem is finding the aforementioned list as well as knowing the authority of my 1SG with more soldiers in TDS/IG/Chaplin than anyone ever thought imaginable.
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CSM Richard StCyr
AR 350-1, AR 600-8-22, DOD Manual 1348.33-M and the numerous supported regulations listed in the back of each, refer to the standards for acquiring and maintaining Airborne Status.
The authority of your 1SG and NCOs is outlined in AR 600-20 c 2 para 2-18 -2-20. and the myriad of supporting regulations listed at the rear of the pub.
Remember there is a reason that there exists the saying "Diamonds are Trump" your 1SG administers or supervises nearly every program for the Commander, advises the Commander and executes the Commanders intent. You as a SPC should be worried about what a SGT and SSG are responsible for and seek to be trained at those levels as you by regulation, practicality, and numerous recent historic examples could find yourself holding the bag as a Team or Squad Leader.
The authority of your 1SG and NCOs is outlined in AR 600-20 c 2 para 2-18 -2-20. and the myriad of supporting regulations listed at the rear of the pub.
Remember there is a reason that there exists the saying "Diamonds are Trump" your 1SG administers or supervises nearly every program for the Commander, advises the Commander and executes the Commanders intent. You as a SPC should be worried about what a SGT and SSG are responsible for and seek to be trained at those levels as you by regulation, practicality, and numerous recent historic examples could find yourself holding the bag as a Team or Squad Leader.
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