Posted on Dec 10, 2017
CPT Gurinder (Gene) Rana
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Fighting against his poor and negligent leadership, on each and every step of his assignment, in almost a decade and a half of active service, an officer was errantly discharged to cover-up the mistakes of his leadership, clear thru to GOs. Fighting the system; this officer was diagnosed with PTSD. Was this diagnosis another cover-up or can PTSD develop in peacetime?
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SSgt Daniel d'Errico
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Yes it can. Look at the case of one F-15 crew chief at Spangdalem AB, Germany in the late 90s. He inspected his aircraft during a phase maintenance, found a questionable discrepency with two control rods, realigned them according to the tech manual as he should. But yet, when the aircraft flew, it crashed, killing the pilot. The crew chief was interviewed about his maintenance proceedures and found innocent of any wrong doing. But his feelings about what he might have got him thinking, he killed another human being. He felt deeply regretable, went out in to a farmer's field, climbed into a hunting stand and shot himself. If this isn't PTSD in a non combat sotuation what is? (Note, I might be wrong about the air base name in Germany, please forgive my poor memory that hits me now and then).
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CPT Gurinder (Gene) Rana
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Thanks for participation of all who provided their inputs to my post "PTSD outside combat situations, which in many cases is caused by toxic leaderships". Your participation has given me a new generation subject to write about. Much appreciated.
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AN Eric Lewis
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Whether PTSD can develop from non-combat situations shouldn't be in question. It has been treated for decades as stemming from personal physical assaults, survivors of any traumatic experience such as plane crashes, earthquakes, hurricanes, 09-11-01, car crashes, helping reclaim the dead bodies from disasters, and many other situations, can develop it and have developed it. It isn't a, "military," term. There are many more people treated for PTSD outside of our military circles than within them. We hear about it as being a veterans issue because we are veterans. However, developing it because of administrative encumbrances? I asked three psychologist friends about this and they all looked at me with blank faces then began shaking their heads. They each said that they'd not be able to justify an administrative encumbrance as crossing the threshold of a traumatic experience. They all also asked if perhaps his persistence to fight the system, "at each and every command over a decade and a half," his oppositional defiance if you will, was actually a symptom of his PTSD. They said it isn't an uncommon manifestation and the diagnosis and discharge could have been accurate but there's no way to know with such limited information. So, I'm just speculating. There are many who develop and get treatment for PTSD during peacetime, though - EMT's, Paramedics, physical event survivors, Law Enforcement Officers, Firemen, doctors and nurses, and anyone involved in saving (and losing) lives.
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CPT Gurinder (Gene) Rana
CPT Gurinder (Gene) Rana
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One toxic leadership can result in PTSD; it doesn't have to take a decade and a half. However, the PTSD can take over a decade to manifest itself into an accute form. This is my reading.
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MAJ Hugh Blanchard
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I've personally seen some toxic leadership environments lead to actual physical disease in the recent past. In one small unit, a group of four subject matter experts were exposed to so much stress that three of the four developed heart disease. One had to retire and the other two require continuing medical treatment to this day. Yes, PTSD can develop in non-combat situations, and it's not just a matter of "he said, she said..", it can be quite real.
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PO1 Kevin Dougherty
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Yes, it can. I speak from personal experience from serving in fire and EMS. I have seen it in others, and in myself ... granted in some ways that was closer to a combat situation than not ... no one can look at a broken and mangled body, or work feverishly to save the life of another human only to lose the battle and not be effected. Each time takes it's toll. Some can't take a lot, some can take more, some find a way to manage, some do not. I saw the breaking point coming, and made the necessary adjustments.
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CPT Gurinder (Gene) Rana
CPT Gurinder (Gene) Rana
>1 y
You are damn straight PO1 Kevin Dougherty; each time trauma is induced or occurs those in the thicket of things are detrimentally affected. It is real easy to say forget that incident and move on, yet it is almost impossible to do. The memory, the flashbacks and the distress can disable lives. In a toxic command, the toxins can leave lives a wreck that unraveling the knots and eradication of poison induced can take a lifetime. Well said Kevin. Thanks.
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CW3 Susan Burkholder
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It is erroneous to believe that PTSD only exists in the military. Civilians can experience trauma and have nightmares, etc and lifelong consequences afterward.
There is however clinical depression and moderate depression as well. Working in a prolonged toxic work environment can lead to depression easily. I'm skeptical that a doctor or psychiatrist would risk his license to diagnose PTSD just to help out the soldier who was inept.
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CPT Gurinder (Gene) Rana
CPT Gurinder (Gene) Rana
>1 y
I agree Susan; toxic leadership, over a year or even two, can lead to depression, nightmares and flashbacks as well. Reports of toxic leadership or working conditions to IGs or other leaders should be investigated. Inaction by IGs or those aware of such situations would most likely result in unwarranted harm to an innocent person. The screw-up and move-up reality is tough to stomach and it makes for insult to injury.
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MSgt Michael Smith
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Yes. Its called PTSD-The S is for Stress. It's not PTCSD for Combat Stress. Combat is just one way people can get PTSD.
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CPT Gurinder (Gene) Rana
CPT Gurinder (Gene) Rana
>1 y
Thanks MSgt.
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SFC Roger Senatore
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PTSD is nothing but a list of symptoms, and, it seems, the causation of the symptoms is not particularly important. TBI and Mefloquine toxicity often have greatly over-lapping or consistent symptoms with "PTSD." If this officer came into the Army as a healthy well adjusted young man, but latter developed some kind of mental illness that rendered him unfit for continued service, we are morally obligated to take care of him. To the point others have made; there is no way on God's green Earth that some elaborate conspiracy is involved.
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CPT Gurinder (Gene) Rana
CPT Gurinder (Gene) Rana
>1 y
I agree SFC Roger Senatore; we must take care of those of our own who develop or are diagnosed with PTSD after over a decade of a PTSD-free service to our Nation, especially since these brothers or sisters deserve our support in their times of need. If we abandon our own when they need us most, how have we valued their service???
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SPC William Weedman
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The best description I ever heard of PTSI is that everyone has a “slop bucket” we toss bad things in. As we live we add to it and sometimes we get to pour a little out. PTSI occurs when the bucket overflows. Living life fills the bucket (I.e. chronic stress fighting FWA) then a major event happens and the bucket overflows into the rest of your life. In a word....Yes
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CPT Gurinder (Gene) Rana
CPT Gurinder (Gene) Rana
6 y
It is unclear whether you agree that FWA caused by a toxic leadership can cause PTSD or not William. Thanks for your response all the same.
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SPC William Weedman
SPC William Weedman
6 y
Sorry if I was unclear, Yes I do think that extended stress fighting an organized chain of command over period of years could cause PTSI. I would liken it to walking point on a daily patrol, always wary of traps and ambushes. That can be sustained for only a short period.
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LTC Wayne Dandridge
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PTSD can and frequently results from trauma of any kind, auto or aircraft or train accident, rape, assault, burglary, armed robbery, death of a loved one or loved ones, domestic abuse, etc..
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CPT Gurinder (Gene) Rana
CPT Gurinder (Gene) Rana
6 y
Thanks LTC Wayne Dandridge. The question is can a toxic leadership lead to PTSD?
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