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On Camp Casey, KS we have a new Duty on the weekend. Courtesy Patrol to ensure Soldiers are shaving, and staying within the 2ID civilian clothing standards. Everyone is briefed on unauthorized clothing when going through WRC, and they even have posters that give examples of unauthorized clothing. Why can Soldiers, NCO's, and Officers not get right. This just blows my mind.
Shaving
Policy
DA Pam 670-1
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 17
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SGT Kristin Wiley
Good question sir! Why don't you ask the many garrison commanders who find it is necessary to write a policy for this rather than ensuring their NCOs are upholding these standards? From my standpoint, it looks like our leaders are unwilling to hold the NCOs accountable for not correcting inappropriate civilian attire among our troops.
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All due respect SSG, that is not a Courtesy Patrol, that is a Regulation Patrol. A Courtesy Patrol makes sure that the little old ladies who are shopping in the rain make it out to their cars safely.
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CMSgt James Nolan
I was joking. Referencing the word Courtesy. If I am walking around specifically looking to correct every thing that every one is doing/wearing wrong-as in that is my function, that is not a"courtesy patrol" that is a "enforcement patrol"
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SGT Kristin Wiley
I agree with 1stSgt, this task is assigned for the courtesy of others, but for the 'courtesy' of the policy.
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LTC Jason Mackay
CMSgt James Nolan Courtesy Patrol is a time honored tradition in Korea. It was usually off post. As a courtesy to soldiers, a leader is going to mill around in uniform looking for soldiers headed for trouble, and direct them back on post via the shuttle before the MPs have to. They apparently are doing the same on post to enforce these policies the OP posted.
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LTC Jason Mackay
Courtesy Patrol: what is old becomes new again. Time honored tradition for US Army personnel on Peninsula. Leaders are designated on a duty roster to enforce good order and discipline downrange and on post. I had it once a month 98-99. We rolled in pairs.
Perhaps helping old ladies with their shopping bags is another service’s tradition.
It was instituted as a way to cut down UCMJ actions and avoid HN law enforcement complications by simply having a sober adult tap a guy on the shoulder and say “Dude, you’re drunk, go home before you take a bullet train to PFC”. Most complied. If they said F You, you had the MPs take them back.
The running joke used to be the fastest route to Specialist is to send a Sergeant to Korea.
Perhaps helping old ladies with their shopping bags is another service’s tradition.
It was instituted as a way to cut down UCMJ actions and avoid HN law enforcement complications by simply having a sober adult tap a guy on the shoulder and say “Dude, you’re drunk, go home before you take a bullet train to PFC”. Most complied. If they said F You, you had the MPs take them back.
The running joke used to be the fastest route to Specialist is to send a Sergeant to Korea.
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I am shocked that it requires a courtesy patrol. Any and every NCO, SNCO, and Officer should be enforcing the standard whether they are on duty or off. A real and substantial punishment applied a few times (I favor crucifixion on the road to Rome) should serve notice quite effectively. all without sacrificing training time or liberty time for those that would have to serve on courtesy patrol. But if it is necessary, I suggest that field grade officers and senior SNCO's pull the duty. It will definitely send the message that the command means it.
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I have an novel idea. How about personal self accountability. Learn and follow the rules yourself and there should be no problem. If there is a slip up, for instance sometimes my pants comes unbloused, thank the person making the correction, fix this problem and move on...without taking it personally. If you know that you do your best to conform, then you know that any slip ups are just that, slip ups.
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Last week I drove out to a qual range to see how it was going. I have 22 new Soldiers out there, straight from OSUT. The range is being run by a sister company. I find 3 Soldiers right off the bat with rolled sleeves. I correct them, and all my 1SG to plan out a quick class when we get back in. I walk over to the range OIC just to check in and see him, a 1LT, with rolled sleeves. Then I look around and see his SSGs and SGTs with sleeves rolled 2-3 times (now up to the forearm). Right before I get in that LT's ass, his company 1SG comes up with rolled sleeves. I take the LT behind the woodshed for a second with the 1SG.
Wondering why we end up needing CPs? Because too many people have accepted their interpretation as the standard.
My 1SG and I had an eye opening experience about how hard they enforce te standard at Ft Bliss. We were talking to his old CSM from the 101st at the main PX while waiting for Longhorns to open. It was hard to keep a conversation because of how many times the CSM stopped to make a correction on everyone from privates to majors. Right then my 1SG decided to jot only enforce the known standards, but to research the rest. We are mobilizing through there and last thing we need is to deal with basic uniform issues. What happened within a week was that you could see how much more professional the Joes looked. Even our BDE CDR mentioned it.
Wondering why we end up needing CPs? Because too many people have accepted their interpretation as the standard.
My 1SG and I had an eye opening experience about how hard they enforce te standard at Ft Bliss. We were talking to his old CSM from the 101st at the main PX while waiting for Longhorns to open. It was hard to keep a conversation because of how many times the CSM stopped to make a correction on everyone from privates to majors. Right then my 1SG decided to jot only enforce the known standards, but to research the rest. We are mobilizing through there and last thing we need is to deal with basic uniform issues. What happened within a week was that you could see how much more professional the Joes looked. Even our BDE CDR mentioned it.
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When I was stationed in Camp Casey, KS back in 2004 as a young Soldier we had Staff Sergeants and above one Courtesy Patrol not just at the PX but also walking around the Vill. Here in Fort Campbell we have Courtesy Patrol, to ensure standards are being upheld. If Courtesy Patrol confronts a Soldier with a gig, that Soldiers entire NCO Channel from Team Leader to 1SG will report to the DCSM to discuss the gig and also be placed on Courtesy Patrol themselves.
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MSG Stan Hutchison
Way back in 1971, we had CP outside the gates at ASCOM. We had 2 NCOs in each bar in the Ville, usually one SFC and one Staff Sgt. This was at the height of racial tensions in the Army. I (a SSGT at the time) was assigned to the bar where most African-Americans hung out. I was with a black SFC. He advised that I "patrol" outside the bar, which I did.
By the way, this Ville only had 4 bars. We called them the "Soul" bar, the "Rock" bar, the "cowboy" bar, and the "other" bar. Very, very segregated.
Not a comfortable time for many of us, black or white.
By the way, this Ville only had 4 bars. We called them the "Soul" bar, the "Rock" bar, the "cowboy" bar, and the "other" bar. Very, very segregated.
Not a comfortable time for many of us, black or white.
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It's not that they can't get it right it's they don't care enough to get it right.
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MSG(P) Michael Warrick
In somes ways it is good and in other ways it is bad. However, it is the military and they can police things up on base
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Hahaha! That’s not new. 2ID always had Warrior Standards and had Courtesy Patrols that enforced it when I was stationed in Warrior country 97-99 and 01-03. Brigade SDO would post at the front gate on what was called “Turnaround duty” and ensure those leaving Camp were within standards. I’ll never forget a female Soldier who I informed her skirt that was too short. Her defense, “the girls in the bars wear short skirts.” My reply, “are you really comparing your attire to that of a ‘drinky girl’?”
Yeah. CPs have always been needed to ensure standards are met on and off post.
Yeah. CPs have always been needed to ensure standards are met on and off post.
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