Posted on Jul 2, 2019
Details below: following a negative interaction with two NCOs, should I drop it or pursue it further?
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So today we we're loading up a bus with people. Some of us were early. A sergeant said that we'll need to double up because it's going to be full (it was no where near). I told him I'll move when I need to. I wasn't trying to be insubordinate or disrespectful but I guess he took it that way. He said "no you move now. Who the f**k do you think you are?" So I moved. Then his SSG busy told me he needed my seat (all to himself) so I moved again. And all they did was talk trash on me for the day. So my question is am I wrong, or was he? If he was do I take it up with someone higher up the chain of command? Or do I ignore it? I have been told way worse things from people better than him. He's never liked me. and lots of people think he's a bit of a jerk To put it tactfully.
Posted 6 y ago
Responses: 33
You both were wrong. In the beginning, you should have just moved when the Sergeant told you to. The "I'll move when I need to" comment was borderline insubordinate. As for the SSG telling you to move just so he could have the seat all to himself and then talk smack about you with the other NCO....that makes them wrong, as well.
As for taking this higher....As yourself one thing: Is this hill worth fighting for?
As for taking this higher....As yourself one thing: Is this hill worth fighting for?
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SFC James William Bolt [ 40 Yards ]
Sound like 2 EGO git in the way coming curtsy among one another , sign 40 yards
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LTC George Morgan
Let the small things pass and the big things will be ignored with the same result. If your the senior giving this "kind of immature order". Good luck in getting them to respond in the field. Speak to your superior, tell him/her of the occurrence and have them deal with it. Basically it comes down to: Look after the cents and Dollars will look after themselves!
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Lt Col Timothy Cassidy-Curtis
LTC George Morgan - That sounds like a good answer. With that said, SGT(P) (Join to see) - might approach senior leadership with a kind of "Here's what went down...I understand my mistake, and I will work to make improvements. With that said, do you believe that what I experienced is conductive to improved moral and unity? Is their conduct a leadership lesson that I should learn?" If the honest answer is "Yes. I think that's okay" then be prepared to accept it.
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LTC George Morgan
SSgt Joseph Baptist - Absolutely. Add to this, that he's a Cpl., directed by a Sgt. To me this is pretty straight forward.
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If I had asked you to move and double up and you said "I'll move when I need to" in a group of Soldiers I'd have taken it as an inappropriate comment and given you heck too. Probably wouldn't have dropped an F bomb on you and wouldn't have talked crap about you, but you'd have gotten the message that your comment was out of line.
If you came to PSG, 1SG or CSM St.Cyr and told me the story as written I'd ask you what you expected for coming off as a smart butt. Then SSG Numb nuts and I'd have a chat you'd never know about in reference how to make on the spot corrections and appropriate escalation of force verses situation.
Next time just move and when the bus is loaded and seats are empty spread out. No comments required.
If you came to PSG, 1SG or CSM St.Cyr and told me the story as written I'd ask you what you expected for coming off as a smart butt. Then SSG Numb nuts and I'd have a chat you'd never know about in reference how to make on the spot corrections and appropriate escalation of force verses situation.
Next time just move and when the bus is loaded and seats are empty spread out. No comments required.
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SGT(P) (Join to see)
CSM Understanding that I could have avoided this whole snafu with just moving would it be a good idea to talk to the SGT about the incident and apologize for the comment?
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CSM Richard StCyr
SGT(P) (Join to see) - Depends on the NCO, I didn't hold grudges so as long as you weren't a frequent flyer it was fire, fix, forget, move on to business no need to revisit it.
Apologies and discussions only work when someone is rational and professional enough to accept it. With the SSGs' behavior you described I'd just leave it be and drive on.
Apologies and discussions only work when someone is rational and professional enough to accept it. With the SSGs' behavior you described I'd just leave it be and drive on.
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SSG Brian G.
PFC Jeffrey Herrington - Honestly serves no good to apologize here. This was a fire and forget for him. You apologizing is only going to keep your face and name on his radar and by doing anything other than moving on smartly, is going to further fuel his dislike of you, only now he adds 'whiney lil suck up' to the list. IF however, later on, you are confronted about the situation, by said Sergeant then take that time to speak your case, respectfully and apologize t him.
Let the situation go. Use it as a learning tool and move out smartly.
Let the situation go. Use it as a learning tool and move out smartly.
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SSG Brian G.
PFC Jeffrey Herrington - That kind of thing works sometimes, when the person is NOT on the persons personal crap radar already. By all accounts, this E-4 (P) is on this Sergeants special shit list, as well has his E-6 buddies, by his account. That means that there has been enough negative interaction that there is nothing this young specialist can do about it. Apologizing is only going to make things worse. Best to just keep his head down, do his job and avoid this guy and hope PCS time comes around soon.
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Pick your battles SPC. Live to fight another day. Sometimes you're the dog and sometimes you're the hydrant.
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SP5 David Tomlinson
No No No, Spc you are always the hydrant, until you can pass your PT test and make Sgt. Then you can make somebody else the hydrant and you get to be the dog unless there is a bigger dog on the bus, And when you look around and you out rank everybody, then you are
Top Dog, so for now, just accept the piss and run with it.
Top Dog, so for now, just accept the piss and run with it.
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SPC (Join to see)
This is a different Army than I was in. We were taught to respect not challenge. Leave the civilian side at home where it belongs.
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SFC Michael D.
I remember when I was in, I'd see a bunch of privates hanging out and BSing when they had a task to complete. I would tell them, "Get tacticle, if an ass chewing grenade goes off it will hit all of you". They'd get a kick out of it.
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You should have moved,as directed. Having you give up your seat was likely because of your initial comment. You've nothing to elevate up the chain other than your own behavior. You've nothing to gain by apologizing, as it's likely over, unless, of course you raise it again.
I'm not signing off on them saying things about you, but you should've done as instructed, not as you felt.
Let it go.
I'm not signing off on them saying things about you, but you should've done as instructed, not as you felt.
Let it go.
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If you told me that you'll move when you need to, I probably would remind you that you need to because I gave you a lawful order in the course of exercising my general military authority. Sure, you could complain about an NCO to the chain of command, but you should be prepared to have to answer for an insubordinate comment. Check Article 91 before you fight that battle. Best of luck.
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SGT (Join to see)
§891. Art. 91. Insubordinate conduct toward warrant officer, noncommissioned officer, or petty officer
Any warrant officer or enlisted member who—
(1) strikes or assaults a warrant officer, noncommissioned officer, or petty officer, while that officer is in the execution of his office;
(2) willfully disobeys the lawful order of a warrant officer, noncommissioned officer, or petty officer; or
(3) treats with contempt or is disrespectful in language or deportment toward a warrant officer, noncommissioned officer, or petty officer, while that officer is in the execution of his office;
shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.
Any warrant officer or enlisted member who—
(1) strikes or assaults a warrant officer, noncommissioned officer, or petty officer, while that officer is in the execution of his office;
(2) willfully disobeys the lawful order of a warrant officer, noncommissioned officer, or petty officer; or
(3) treats with contempt or is disrespectful in language or deportment toward a warrant officer, noncommissioned officer, or petty officer, while that officer is in the execution of his office;
shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.
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I think you both demonstrated poor tact. You should be very careful about contradicting someone who outranks you. Unless it's a hill worth fighting on and there may be bigger problems later on if you don't stand your ground, it's not a good idea to say (or even imply) you know better then the person of superior rank. As a Specialist, it's your duty to obey all legal and lawful orders from NCOs and Officers. Unless asked, don't state your opinion when you're given a legitimate order. Even if there were only a handful of Soldiers on the bus, it's still within his prerogative to make you and the rest of his subordinates double up on the bus seats. It would be a bit petty perhaps, but nothing illegitimate to making you load the bus that way.
As for his reaction to your response, that might just be his leadership style of cracking down on possible insubordination. I do agree it was unprofessional of him to trash talk about you with a fellow NCO.
My recommendation is to put this behind you and be more mindful about what you say to your superiors. You have nothing to gain by fighting this.
As for his reaction to your response, that might just be his leadership style of cracking down on possible insubordination. I do agree it was unprofessional of him to trash talk about you with a fellow NCO.
My recommendation is to put this behind you and be more mindful about what you say to your superiors. You have nothing to gain by fighting this.
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Bus? You got a bus? http://www.dustyfile.com/the-army-cattle-car was how we travelled in style. :)
Enough said in the other comments. When an E3 and lower the best policy is to keep it zipped unless asking for a teaching moment. E4, E5 is where you learn to grow a military snark, when to use it, how to use it, and how to give a teachable moment to E1-E3s. ;)
Hint: While moving to obey the "order" an E4 *might* get away with "I could have moved if the bus filled up"...
Enough said in the other comments. When an E3 and lower the best policy is to keep it zipped unless asking for a teaching moment. E4, E5 is where you learn to grow a military snark, when to use it, how to use it, and how to give a teachable moment to E1-E3s. ;)
Hint: While moving to obey the "order" an E4 *might* get away with "I could have moved if the bus filled up"...

The Army Cattle Car - Dustyfile.com
There are funny memories sometimes to be found at museums. I reminisced with my children yesterday over Facetime, when I saw this 80 passenger “Cattle Car”. I remember riding on them to and from field training when I was in ROTC, maybe when I was in my Field Artillery Officer Basic Course in the early …
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SFC Michael D.
What did they used to tell us? "Make your buddy smile". Damn that brings back memories. Great post!
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SPC (Join to see)
I remember those in basic. Hardly any standing room and pressed tightly against each other. Thanks for posting.
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That is not the fight you want to have... Imagine going to your PLT LDR, and he/she asks why you are here, and your statement is that you were disrespected for not moving seats in a bus. Probably not going your way. Better to go to the SGT and tell them you were wrong not to follow his instructions, and that you were not happy that they talked bad about you in public.
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You initiated the negative contact, getting shamed a bit seems like a fare trade off. The NCO could have gotten you into trouble for insubordination. Follow the orders of those appointed over you. They don’t have to make sense to you, as long as they are not illegal or immoral, and would not cause the loss of life or limb. Thank you for your service.
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Let it go. Pick your battles. I've learned after almost 10 years there are things you don't want to fall on a sword for. Good luck.
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