Posted on Jul 2, 2019
SGT(P) Bugler And Trumpet Player, Audio Production Nco, Library Ncoic
11.2K
234
62
52
52
0
So today we we're loading up a bus with people. Some of us were early. A sergeant said that we'll need to double up because it's going to be full (it was no where near). I told him I'll move when I need to. I wasn't trying to be insubordinate or disrespectful but I guess he took it that way. He said "no you move now. Who the f**k do you think you are?" So I moved. Then his SSG busy told me he needed my seat (all to himself) so I moved again. And all they did was talk trash on me for the day. So my question is am I wrong, or was he? If he was do I take it up with someone higher up the chain of command? Or do I ignore it? I have been told way worse things from people better than him. He's never liked me. and lots of people think he's a bit of a jerk To put it tactfully.
Avatar feed
Responses: 33
Votes
  • Newest
  • Oldest
  • Votes
SPC Glenn Simmons
1
1
0
Drop it your not a child
(1)
Comment
(0)
SPC Glenn Simmons
SPC Glenn Simmons
6 y
Just because he acted like a complete buffoon you dont have to run tattle on him karma will buy him in the ass
(0)
Reply
(0)
SPC Glenn Simmons
SPC Glenn Simmons
6 y
SPC Glenn Simmons sorry for the auto correct spelling
(0)
Reply
(0)
SPC Medical Specialist
SPC (Join to see)
6 y
...or a civilian.
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
CW3 Michael Bodnar
1
1
0
SGT(P) (Join to see) First of all, never question an NCO in front of the other troops like that - my opinion. When you you’re told to do something, just do it no matter how trivial it may seem. Even if the NCO is dead wrong on an issue, ask to speak with them privately. Politely ask your question but be prepared to not have it go your way. If it doesn’t, go about your day and think nothing of it. As a SPC, your job is not to ask why or question orders from leadership. Your job is to react to directions handed down to you by that same leadership. In this instance, you were both wrong. The NCO should’ve been more professional and you could’ve as well. When you become an NCO, remember situations like this and use that as an example of what not to do. As far as taking this incident up with leadership above him, I wouldn’t recommend it. This is not something your senior leadership needs to be concerned with. Your 1SG will likely tell you to get out of their face with such nonsense.
When I was a Marine many years ago, I was told when I became an NCO that I no longer have friends that are not NCO’s. That really hit me hard because I now had to break ties with many Marines I was close with on a professional level. I was now in charge of their well-being and I had to ensure they knew their jobs and could perform with little-to-no guidance. I was the one counseling and developing them to become potential NCO’s one day.
(1)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
MSG Gary Eckert
1
1
0
Edited 6 y ago
This reminded me of a Military Justice class I attended when I was on active duty. The instructor asked which was a lawful order..."Would you please go down to the motor pool? or Go down to the f....ing motor pool. Trick question, both were lawful orders. A supervisor asking to you do something or adding a curse word to an otherwise lawful order didn't change the lawfulness of the order. If you understood you were being told to go to the motor pool and you didn't go, you have disobeyed an order. The Sergeant's actions as you describe them were not professional. You disobeyed an order and you could have prevented the entire situation if you had just moved out smartly when told.
(1)
Comment
(0)
SPC Medical Specialist
SPC (Join to see)
6 y
I like the second quote better. The word Please did not exist when I was in the Army unless it came out of the mouth of a civilian.
I had a captain who was also a doctor and the most incompetent one I ever worked with.
The Koreans on post used to call him the KATUSA doctor. His car broke down on one of the crappy streets in Pusan, S. Korea and he told me to bring one of my ambulances out to give him a jump start. I was 43rd MASH's ambulance driver. I told him that was against regulations. He said I had to do it so I asked him is that a direct order and he said yes. So I did for that reason in case it came back to bite me in the ass.
While trying to get close enough to this captain's car, there was this huge pothole in the road that I did not see and guess where the ambulance went? I took a picture of it in case needed later. I'm glad I didn't bring the good ambulance. I would have taken the Cracker Box, but it was out of service.
Well...not long afterward I was called in to see the post commander probably because somebody reported it and it wasn't the motor pool. It helps to have friends in high places. When this commander read my name he said "Aren't you the one who supplies the school with videos from the states?" I told him I was. The on-post school used videotapes to teach Korean National's kids English. He said a few choice words about that captain then told me not to worry about it and excused me. The captain was next in line and it was not good for him. I saw him again at Fort Ord missing a bar.
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
SSG Brian G.
1
1
0
At the end of the day, when the dust settles and the crap has run its course: you were wrong. It's a crap answer that no on of junior grade likes to hear but it is reality. The reason is simple. You are not an NCO yet. You are an E-4 promotable. On the cusp but not there yet. That Sergeant gave you an order. You barked back at him being a smart ass, whether it was your intent or not. You then ruffled his feathers and he was well within his rank and right to bark back and leave no question it was an order and to move out smartly. In the military, with lawful orders, such as this, you opinion, your feels etc are irrelevant. You don't know what that NCO knows. He could have been told it was going to be a packed ride and was being proactive about it. Things change. You got on his radar.

Likewise the SSG gave you a lawful order, whether you liked or agreed with it or not. Them talking trash was really not even crossing the line as it was a verbal smoke session.

You can take it up with someone higher up but here is the rub. They did nothing wrong and if you complain, if that Sergeant wants to be a dick about it, he can jam you up. You technically disobeyed a lawful order and disrespected an NCO. I have seen people lose rank for less, then your (P) status is chucked.

This is one of those situations that you just grit your teeth, keep your tongue and opinion to yourself, follow orders and hope that either he gets PCS orders or you do and drive on. This is not the hill you really want to die on today or any other.
(1)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
SPC Casey Ashfield
0
0
0
Some NCOs have a very wide berth of what counts for "insubordination." Use it as a learning experience to shape your own leadership style. You could take it up with your chain of command if you felt wronged, but remember the oldest military adage there is "shit rolls downhill."
(0)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
SSG Roland Shelton
0
0
0
Probably a little bit of wrong on both sides. A sergeant jerk has no less authority then a sergeant good. Remember his actions and when you put on stripes you'll do better. Add chalk it up to a lesson and move on.
(0)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
Cpl Jeff N.
0
0
0
As a Marine NCO, if It old someone to move, I expected them to move, not negotiate with me, which is essentially what you tried with your "I will move when I need to" comment. In other words, you were told to move, you said no. That is insubordinate, period.

If you were asking a clarifying question like "where would you like me to move to" then there would have been no issue. Perhaps as a musician you are not expected to follow orders when they are given. That orders are open for debate/discussion/negotiation. I would suggest you drop it, they have likely forgotten about it. You push it and it will not serve you well.
(0)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
SPC Medical Specialist
0
0
0
Edited 6 y ago
I would let it go. It isn't worth the fight. I wouldn't have said anything and just followed his orders even if he was wrong. Sometimes when you get on the wrong side of someone you will stay there even if you never intended it.
(0)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
SGM Patrick Kirby
0
0
0
You were off base! Also the pettiness of the NCO’s were also off based. Yet, should you continue to challenge lawful direction (regardless of your opinion) your in for a very hard time. Every NCO has also been in your shoes. Think! You seem very capable.
(0)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
SP5 Charles Gould
0
0
0
Kid, you joined the ARMY, not a college fraternity! The express purpose of an ARMY is to kill people and blow shit up, which we do better than every other country on earth. You may play a musical instrument, but your BASIC training was with a rifle, not a Tuba. You could be called at any time to pick-up arms and fight alongside others in your unit. Music stops when the shooting starts.
In that situation, a split second of hesitation to obey an order could cost you, or others their lives. I fought in the deepest jungles abd swamps in Vietnam with a five man Recon Team. ANY of those guys could have yelled a direction to me, and it would be executed immediately without a second thought - and I was the Team Leader! I trusted the skills, eyes and ears of my team.
"But I'm a Musician, not a combat infantryman!" Wrong. You are a SOLDIER first! If a senior NCO tells you to get off the bus, strip to your skivvies, and run behind it carrying your footlocker over your head while singing the National Anthem - you do it immediately! If he says "jump", then your correct response should not only be "How high, Sgt?", but also "And when should I come down?"
I wouldn't last two days in today's Army. Even with all the deployments in the last decades, it seems to have gone soft. I think every single SOLDIER needs a turn in a front line combat unit first - experience the military's soul, and only then get to be a musician, writer, computer jockey, or fly a desk. Make the Army a real fighting force first! There are NO feelings in real combat. Just those who survive, and thise who die. Obey your seniors. Or those with more experience than you. As Gen Patton once opined, "Make the other poor bastard die for his country!"
Be a SOLDIER first!
<rant over>
(0)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small

Join nearly 2 million former and current members of the US military, just like you.