Posted on May 17, 2016
Did CSM Basil Plumley steal valor by wearing unauthorized awards?
78.2K
1.04K
287
26
26
0
"The U.S. Army is investigating allegations by a military researcher that the late Command Sgt. Major Basil Plumley -- a legend in the airborne and infantry communities -- wore unauthorized combat and valor awards that exaggerated the wartime achievements that made him famous.
"Among the many documents Siddall provides in his research is an Oct. 2, 2015, letter from Army Lt. Col Wil Neubauer, chief of Awards and Decorations Branch, confirming that Plumley was authorized to wear one CIB and states that "we are unable to verify" the Combat Infantry Badge with "one star" listed on Plumley's DD Form 214.
"In that same photo, Plumley wore valor awards he did not earn, Siddall wrote. Plumley wore a Silver Star with a bronze oak leaf cluster, which indicates a second Silver Star. Plumley also wore a Bronze Star with a V device for valor and one bronze oak leaf cluster for two awards.
"The October 2015 letter from the Army states Plumley was authorized only one Silver Star and the Bronze Star with one oak leaf cluster, not two OLCs. The letter also states that Plumley was not authorized to wear the V device with his Bronze Star medals."
Please read the article before commenting.
http://www.military.com/daily-news/2016/05/17/army-investigating-we-were-soldiers-legend-for-inflating-award.html
"Among the many documents Siddall provides in his research is an Oct. 2, 2015, letter from Army Lt. Col Wil Neubauer, chief of Awards and Decorations Branch, confirming that Plumley was authorized to wear one CIB and states that "we are unable to verify" the Combat Infantry Badge with "one star" listed on Plumley's DD Form 214.
"In that same photo, Plumley wore valor awards he did not earn, Siddall wrote. Plumley wore a Silver Star with a bronze oak leaf cluster, which indicates a second Silver Star. Plumley also wore a Bronze Star with a V device for valor and one bronze oak leaf cluster for two awards.
"The October 2015 letter from the Army states Plumley was authorized only one Silver Star and the Bronze Star with one oak leaf cluster, not two OLCs. The letter also states that Plumley was not authorized to wear the V device with his Bronze Star medals."
Please read the article before commenting.
http://www.military.com/daily-news/2016/05/17/army-investigating-we-were-soldiers-legend-for-inflating-award.html
Stolen Valor
Vietnam War
Awards
Edited 8 y ago
Posted 8 y ago
Responses: 139
17
17
0
I can't and wont say either way. Just because the Army doesn't have record of it, does not mean that he wasn't awarded them. It's not like they did everything digitally back then. It's possible he could have been awarded them, and the service's copies were lost. Army record keeping isn't the most reliable thing even today.
(17)
(0)
LTC (Join to see)
SGT Kyle Johnson - In the grand scheme of things, none of the awards I earned matter at all anyway. I've never been paid a single penny less because I lacked a certain award. I've never been denied a desired position because of some award that is not in my file. I've had exactly one officer, a lieutenant colonel, comment on the relatively small assortment of fruit salad on my then first lieutenant's uniform, to which I replied by holding up my scotch and saying that I preferred grains to fruit.
I have not deployed to a combat zone and as such do not wear a combat patch. Nobody cares, least of all me.
I have not deployed to a combat zone and as such do not wear a combat patch. Nobody cares, least of all me.
(0)
(0)
LTC (Join to see)
During one SRP, prior to one of my deployments, I was reviewing my records and found several documents that did not belong to me. I was a 2LT at the time and the documents belonged to some MAJ who's last name had the same first 3 letters. I pointed this out to the admin clerk running the SRP and her exact words were, "Oh, they're probably just extra copies that got stuck in your file by mistake" and she ran them through the shredder. I can only hope that they weren't too important or that MAJ Bur...... had kept copies.
(0)
(0)
SSG (Join to see)
You are correct, heck I started out as a UA in 2006 and not everything was digital then. It took alot of hands to get a record into IPERMS even in 2006, I even personally sent in alot of my own records in hard copy to get them into the system.
(0)
(0)
CPT Earl George
Especially for you folks still on active duty. If you do not have orders in your hot little hand awarding you a badge or ribbon or promotion, please do not wear such till you get the problem fixed. what I wore on my uniform, I had a copy of the orders for. You don't need the hassle.
(0)
(0)
15
15
0
I deleted the original comment as to not cause someone to start sobbing from hurt feelings.....can we come together for a group frickin hug and sing a campfire song about how much we like everyone while we got Soldiers, Sailors, Marines and Airmen putting their ass on the line every day and night!
So, we can continue to boo-hoo about how we think this salty dog that gave so much of himself to give us a chance to decide how we f'in feel about ourselves or we can simply lace our boots up and practice PME abilities because with crap like this in senior officer schools houses, we lack the physical, mental and emotional toughness to be leaders.....need to see what the hell is really going up there in Carlisle and get the class focused on the threat of 2025 - 2030 & beyond.....hell, let's hear about one of your peers = COL Johnson (173 ABN) and his shenanigans, how he cheated on his wife, and was still able to retire while enlisted men getting maxed the hell out continuously at their courts martial because they cannot afford the defense team....I rarely get on this site lately because of touchy feely bullshit.....get your game face on COL Sam Russelland straighten your peers out there in Carlisle. Now for me, its time to go for a lunchtime run because my blood pressure is soaring.....and, for those that have not served in the Infantry (and want a CIB)....encourage them to reclass and chase a star or two for their own CIB for themselves....gonna bash this man that served on multiple fronts while we have many trying not to deploy and so many slick sleeves running their mouths (I see your CAB so do not take that as a jab COL Sam Russell)......problem is the younger generation will not understand the entirety of the situation....let's develop and share the entire situation here.....your turn.
So, we can continue to boo-hoo about how we think this salty dog that gave so much of himself to give us a chance to decide how we f'in feel about ourselves or we can simply lace our boots up and practice PME abilities because with crap like this in senior officer schools houses, we lack the physical, mental and emotional toughness to be leaders.....need to see what the hell is really going up there in Carlisle and get the class focused on the threat of 2025 - 2030 & beyond.....hell, let's hear about one of your peers = COL Johnson (173 ABN) and his shenanigans, how he cheated on his wife, and was still able to retire while enlisted men getting maxed the hell out continuously at their courts martial because they cannot afford the defense team....I rarely get on this site lately because of touchy feely bullshit.....get your game face on COL Sam Russelland straighten your peers out there in Carlisle. Now for me, its time to go for a lunchtime run because my blood pressure is soaring.....and, for those that have not served in the Infantry (and want a CIB)....encourage them to reclass and chase a star or two for their own CIB for themselves....gonna bash this man that served on multiple fronts while we have many trying not to deploy and so many slick sleeves running their mouths (I see your CAB so do not take that as a jab COL Sam Russell)......problem is the younger generation will not understand the entirety of the situation....let's develop and share the entire situation here.....your turn.
(15)
(0)
13
13
0
COL Sam Russell it is still possible that the awards were legitimate. I get so weary of this constant stolen valor quest,
(13)
(0)
COL Sam Russell
He was wearing three CIBs, but only authorized one, and that for Vietnam. His WWII service was as a scout in an Artillery unit, not the Infantry. He never served in the Korean War. If he was wearing a CIB--not to mention one with a star--in the 7th Cav before deploying to Vietnam than his stolen valor dates to his active service. The stunning thing is why a soldier, as decorated as he really was, feel the need to inflate his valor. Here is the official response from HRC's awards branch.
http://images.military.com/media/benefits/pdf/plumley_army_memo.pdf
http://images.military.com/media/benefits/pdf/plumley_army_memo.pdf
(2)
(0)
PO1 (Join to see)
Someone needs to get in contact with the National Infantry Museum because he is listed there as having earned them.
(2)
(0)
11
11
0
We are aware of the story released by military .com about the late CSM. Plumley. We have been aware of the story for some time now. We are close friends with the Plumley family and have been speaking with them on a regular basis. What we do know is some of the so called facts in that story are just not true. The reporter at no time even reached out to the CSM's family, to see if they might have had some records to provide.
The "researcher", who himself has never even served one day in the military based all of his findings on only stuff he could find through a FOIA request. Now in my years of doing this I can tell you WWII was one of the worst times for record keeping. Not only that, but if you went over as say a combat engineer and someone wanted you to be an 11B, guess what you were an 11B! You didn't come back to the US to change MOS's! You were then an Infantryman and could have them earned a CIB! So this researcher had no clue how the military worked, decided he would go after Plumley.
Not to mention this Brian Siddell also has a personal vendetta against Joe Galloway and LTC Moore, which I also expressed to the reporter before he published this story.
When I spoke to the reporter at Military . Com and showed him all the discrepancies in this research and told him the family had tons of paperwork he told me they were holding the story based on all the questions. I guess his longing for ratings and a popular story got the best of him.
Well we won't stand by and let him trash a true hero. We will work with the family and try to get this out away. They don't need this and the CSM isn't here to defend himself. We ask that you don't share that trash of a story for the CSM's sake of his family. We will Keep you informed. ~ Bulldog1
Just wanted to add to what my buddy Bulldog said, in 1973 there was a fire that wiped out 80% of the records from Korea and WW2, so I am wondering myself how accurate the guys research could be on the era???~Fred.
https://www.facebook.com/StolenValor/posts/ [login to see] 08814
The "researcher", who himself has never even served one day in the military based all of his findings on only stuff he could find through a FOIA request. Now in my years of doing this I can tell you WWII was one of the worst times for record keeping. Not only that, but if you went over as say a combat engineer and someone wanted you to be an 11B, guess what you were an 11B! You didn't come back to the US to change MOS's! You were then an Infantryman and could have them earned a CIB! So this researcher had no clue how the military worked, decided he would go after Plumley.
Not to mention this Brian Siddell also has a personal vendetta against Joe Galloway and LTC Moore, which I also expressed to the reporter before he published this story.
When I spoke to the reporter at Military . Com and showed him all the discrepancies in this research and told him the family had tons of paperwork he told me they were holding the story based on all the questions. I guess his longing for ratings and a popular story got the best of him.
Well we won't stand by and let him trash a true hero. We will work with the family and try to get this out away. They don't need this and the CSM isn't here to defend himself. We ask that you don't share that trash of a story for the CSM's sake of his family. We will Keep you informed. ~ Bulldog1
Just wanted to add to what my buddy Bulldog said, in 1973 there was a fire that wiped out 80% of the records from Korea and WW2, so I am wondering myself how accurate the guys research could be on the era???~Fred.
https://www.facebook.com/StolenValor/posts/ [login to see] 08814
Stolen Valor - We are aware of the story released by... | Facebook
We are aware of the story released by military .com about the late CSM. Plumley. We have been aware of the story for some time now. We are close friends...
(11)
(0)
1SG Ed Howard
Are you suggesting CSM Plumley had his MOS changed to Infantryman in WWII, but it is just not on his records which are held in St. Louis? if so, it would account for one of the allegations. I am encouraged by this because this is one of the first times someone on this blag has given solid evidence. Would you please post that document?
(0)
(0)
SGT Randall Smith
How easy it is for some one who has never worn the uniform, or dodged the rounds to complain and judge those of us who have.
(0)
(0)
SGT (Join to see)
Heck the military TODAY still can't keeps its records straight. So expecting it in WWII is utter BS.
Quite frankly these people need to find something better to do the hassle Vets, active duty members and those who have passed over an issue like a medal.
Quite frankly these people need to find something better to do the hassle Vets, active duty members and those who have passed over an issue like a medal.
(0)
(0)
11
11
0
Right now my DD-214 does not show the Joint Meritorious Unit award given to V Corps while I was with them in Iraq, nor does it show the OIF medal and GWOTE medal I am authorized. And I have also learned I am now authorized to wear the DANCON March Medal, also not listed. I guess some day I need to file for a DD-215, plus I also have orders for an AAM issued after my DD-214 was issued.
Wonder if this might have happened to the CSM? I'm not making calls either way.
Wonder if this might have happened to the CSM? I'm not making calls either way.
(11)
(0)
9
9
0
9
9
0
8
8
0
That is very sad that SGM Basil Plumley wore awards he was not authorized COL Sam Russell.
I wonder if had a form of dementia which made him believe he was awarded something he wasn't.
I hope there is a good reason that he wore what he apparently was not awarded. One possibility is that his awards are non-redacted awards for valor in sensitive operations.
In any event I hope that there are good reasons for his wearing what he seems not to have been authorized.
I wonder if had a form of dementia which made him believe he was awarded something he wasn't.
I hope there is a good reason that he wore what he apparently was not awarded. One possibility is that his awards are non-redacted awards for valor in sensitive operations.
In any event I hope that there are good reasons for his wearing what he seems not to have been authorized.
(8)
(0)
COL Sam Russell
He was wearing three CIBs, but only authorized one, and that for Vietnam. His WWII service was as a scout in an Artillery unit, not the Infantry. He never served in the Korean War. If he was wearing a CIB--not to mention one with a star--in the 7th Cav before deploying to Vietnam than his stolen valor dates to his active service. The stunning thing is why a soldier, as decorated as he really was, feel the need to inflate his valor. Here is the official response from HRC's awards branch.
http://images.military.com/media/benefits/pdf/plumley_army_memo.pdf
http://images.military.com/media/benefits/pdf/plumley_army_memo.pdf
(2)
(0)
SFC Michael Bazzell
COL Sam Russell - I have problem with that every man in WWII was an infantry man first other MOS second. Not to give him his CIB Star for WWII is a crime in itself. My grandfather was in the Korean War he didn't have all his medals on his 214. My father was in Vietnam and he didn't have all his medals in his 214. I don't think he inflated his valor but corrected it on his own which is fine in my book for this crusty hero. I just retired and am missing a medal on my 214...... So look at the system first and blame it not the hero.
(3)
(0)
7
7
0
COL Russell -
Right is right; wrong is wrong … I get it … but I just can’t bring myself to judging a man who can’t defend himself. I am however having troubles reconciling Mr. Siddall’s statement,
"I just want the correct information out there because there are so many people that are really heroes, and it is so frustrating when they give the hero status to someone who was anything but,”
Homo sapiens are an odd animal in that we are surprised to discover that our heroes are mortals who are subject to the flaws and failing of our species. One such is our pride and another, envy. I cannot attest to all the awards worn by CSM Plumley but his actions at the Ia Drang clearly earned him that status and to flippantly say he was “given” it seems somewhat prejudicial and contrary to Mr. Siddall’s ethical position as an “independent researcher”.
If the documents or lack of thereof, fail to support the awards as adjudicated by an inquiry and proper board then, the right thing must be done. However, I would not be surprised if CSM Plumley is continued to be looked upon with little tarnish to his reputation as his actions at the Ia Drang firmly cemented him as a hero.
Right is right; wrong is wrong … I get it … but I just can’t bring myself to judging a man who can’t defend himself. I am however having troubles reconciling Mr. Siddall’s statement,
"I just want the correct information out there because there are so many people that are really heroes, and it is so frustrating when they give the hero status to someone who was anything but,”
Homo sapiens are an odd animal in that we are surprised to discover that our heroes are mortals who are subject to the flaws and failing of our species. One such is our pride and another, envy. I cannot attest to all the awards worn by CSM Plumley but his actions at the Ia Drang clearly earned him that status and to flippantly say he was “given” it seems somewhat prejudicial and contrary to Mr. Siddall’s ethical position as an “independent researcher”.
If the documents or lack of thereof, fail to support the awards as adjudicated by an inquiry and proper board then, the right thing must be done. However, I would not be surprised if CSM Plumley is continued to be looked upon with little tarnish to his reputation as his actions at the Ia Drang firmly cemented him as a hero.
(7)
(0)
CPT Mike Dailey
This is the best and most balanced comment in this thread. It reflects my feelings precisely. Thanks
(1)
(0)
6
6
0
THIS JUST HIT ME! CSM Basil Plumley was the CSM for Hal Moore. CSM Plumley and LTG Moore traveled together, made appearances together and were photographed together! IF, and this is a HUGE IF...IF CSM Basil Plumley had EVER worn ANYTHING that he was NOT authorized to wear, Hal Moore would have fixed that ON THE SPOT!
SO, for this guy to question CSM Basil Plumley, he is calling into question LTG Hal Moore, and I don't know ANYONE man nor beast that has a set big enough to question Hal Moore. Somebody needs to feed this "Military Researcher" a jump boot, spit shined toe first and then give him some blood wings with a set of Master Wings with all the mustard stains that CSM Plumley had. AIRBORNE!
SO, for this guy to question CSM Basil Plumley, he is calling into question LTG Hal Moore, and I don't know ANYONE man nor beast that has a set big enough to question Hal Moore. Somebody needs to feed this "Military Researcher" a jump boot, spit shined toe first and then give him some blood wings with a set of Master Wings with all the mustard stains that CSM Plumley had. AIRBORNE!
(6)
(0)
1SG Ed Howard
Hal Moore is totally in the clear in this because even IF (hypothetically of course) the CSM's awards were inflated, it would not have been expected for LTC Moore to have investigated CSM Plumley's records without reason. No one did that then, just like no one does that now. The issue was addressed by none other than COL Dave Moore (son of LTG Hal Moore) in the Military.com article. He said that his father wrote about CSM Plumley's awards (the ones now in dispute) in the book, based on what he had been told. He stopped short of saying WHO told him that, but I imagine it would have been his CSM in 1965. Dave Moore concluded by saying he did not intend to deceive anyone. I believe Dave Moore and share your sentiments that his father is a straight shooter.
(1)
(0)
Read This Next
Continue with Facebook 
Continue with Google