Posted on Jul 12, 2023
Is it standard or even typical as a form of disciplinary action for an NCO to call a soldier's parents to complain about the service member?
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Hello Rallypoint Members!
I have a question regarding disciplinary actions that I have received from my detachment SFC. So I got myself into some trouble with an MP (argued with an MP after having a few beers), not gonna go into great detail (I own the mistakes that I made) but I am confused about one thing that my detachment sergeant has done regarding my disciplinary actions. The day after my altercation with the MP’s, my detachment SFC called me into her office, she informed me about what reprimands I could be facing (which I expected) but she also made me write down my mother and father’s phone numbers and she actually called them to tell them how much of a dirt bag I had been (which I did not expect). I am a grown man and can face the legal and moral repercussions of my own actions but was taken aback to find out that my NCO had called my family to inform them of the mistakes that I had made. Is this standard procedure in the military or even a typical form of disciplinary action for an NCO to make?
Any and all input is appreciated!
Thanks!
I have a question regarding disciplinary actions that I have received from my detachment SFC. So I got myself into some trouble with an MP (argued with an MP after having a few beers), not gonna go into great detail (I own the mistakes that I made) but I am confused about one thing that my detachment sergeant has done regarding my disciplinary actions. The day after my altercation with the MP’s, my detachment SFC called me into her office, she informed me about what reprimands I could be facing (which I expected) but she also made me write down my mother and father’s phone numbers and she actually called them to tell them how much of a dirt bag I had been (which I did not expect). I am a grown man and can face the legal and moral repercussions of my own actions but was taken aback to find out that my NCO had called my family to inform them of the mistakes that I had made. Is this standard procedure in the military or even a typical form of disciplinary action for an NCO to make?
Any and all input is appreciated!
Thanks!
UCMJ
Paralegal NCO
1SG
SFC
JAG
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 217
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Wow, what a way to make your family think you're not doing so well. EVERY other form of discipline is deserved, and you know that. Contacting your family was out of line. They worry about you enough.
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I totally agree with all these response's about it's like they're back in High School , I was in for 8years and got in my fair share of trouble State side and abroad. They never once called my Mommy or Daddy. I say it that way because that's how they are treating young Men and Women. They signed a contract to serve and protect our Nation to highest Degree and they don't need some Hall Monitor calling his or her parents because of something they may have done !!! It's this Woke Ideology they have Injected into the Armed Forces !!! There is only one way to Combat this kind of stuff and that's at the Ballot Box in November 2024 !!!! All this has my blood boiling to listen to this cr*p !!!
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Sgt Dave Fender
The only problem with the ballot box is everyone in office or running for office is a liberal. Some of them are just moving faster than the others
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SSG Michael McCalla
Wow! The woke ideology trying to get a young soldier back on track! SMDH. Unbelievable comment..The leader cared more about soldier than some BS ideology that you're obviously bought into.
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Welcome to today’s Army.
I served from 1987-2017. When I was a commander, there were five potential situations that would cause me to call a Soldier’s parents:
1. He did something incredibly good, and he’s getting a medal for it.
2. We’re downrange, he was WIA, but he’s alive and will (hopefully) recover.
3. We’re downrange, he’s MIA, and I will keep calling back with updates.
4. We’re downrange, and he was KIA. (This call would only happen after official notification was made.)
5. He’s sounding suicidal, in which case we’d bring in all the reinforcements we could get to prevent that from happening.
“Got into an argument with an MP” ?? FFS, that’s nothing. If I was your commander, I’d be ecstatic that you didn’t get in a brawl with the MP’s, and Top and I didn’t have to go get you out of jail.
I served from 1987-2017. When I was a commander, there were five potential situations that would cause me to call a Soldier’s parents:
1. He did something incredibly good, and he’s getting a medal for it.
2. We’re downrange, he was WIA, but he’s alive and will (hopefully) recover.
3. We’re downrange, he’s MIA, and I will keep calling back with updates.
4. We’re downrange, and he was KIA. (This call would only happen after official notification was made.)
5. He’s sounding suicidal, in which case we’d bring in all the reinforcements we could get to prevent that from happening.
“Got into an argument with an MP” ?? FFS, that’s nothing. If I was your commander, I’d be ecstatic that you didn’t get in a brawl with the MP’s, and Top and I didn’t have to go get you out of jail.
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You are in the Army (Navy, AF, etc), not in grade school! I would never threaten to or call Daddy, and Mommy on a soldier. A senior NCO should know how to deal with military discipline - it does not include calling parents, friends, neighbors, or anybody outside of the Chain of Command. That's all that needs to be said on this subject... The call was definitely inappropriate!
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It isn't a common tool but I have seen it used. Especially for entry level Service Members who are not that far removed from living at home. The argument could be made that the leader possibly overstepped but there could also be the argument made that the leader used an outside the box approach to provide a corrective measure that could possibly stick. We all get safety briefs from Leadership and see Servicemembers who still continue to make poor choices in the face of that but when Mom/Dad start checking on you that generally clears the board for trouble children. I never personally used this approach but I have seen it effectively used on occasion when a good kid needed a wakeup call before they made a permanent negative imprint on their career .
But at the end of the day you got into it with the MPs (not a smart choice) and did so after having a few tasty beverages (anything alcohol related automatically escalates the issue and elevates repercussions). I would advise that you take your licks and keep your nose clean on this one.
But at the end of the day you got into it with the MPs (not a smart choice) and did so after having a few tasty beverages (anything alcohol related automatically escalates the issue and elevates repercussions). I would advise that you take your licks and keep your nose clean on this one.
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If this isn't about the dumbest f***ing thing I've ever heard of leadership doing in the realmof disciplinaryaction, it's definitely pretty damn close to the top. Far out of line. We're constantly saying if we treat soldiers like kids, they're going to act like kids....and this lobotomy candidate of a "leader" wants to bring it back to grade school? I'm very scarcely someone who even considers "go tall to IG" but you can bet I'd be going over there. That'd be stirring the pot though and perhaps it's not worth the hassle in your case right now, but oooh....wouldn't blame you.
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Once You enter the Military service You are now considered an adult and responsible for Your own conduct. I fail to understand why there would even be any thought of contacting Your parents even if You hadn't already accepted any punishment or corrective action that was due. The Military like any other employer, You and only You are responsible for Your own actions and either correct he conduct or suffer the consequences. I always found after a corrective action if the offense wasn't repeated i would not even remind the Military Member involved of the mishap provided it never happened again. Let them get focused again on their responsibility and move on in the proper direction. The idea is to have them learn from the mistake and not repeat the offense and them and doing that in front of peers isn't proper let alone involving parents for a grown Military member. I've NEVER encountered an Officer or NCO that had ever contacted parent for issues like that or think it should even be considered especially if they don't even know the parents and they aren't even involved. At this point in life it's Your chain of command and the UCMJ You are responsible to, NOT Mommy and Daddy ! I feel that NCO stepped way beyond what is proper ! NO, it is NOT typical !
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I crossed the line of getting involved in a troops personal life one time, I saw it as necessary for the mission. Very different circumstances-and it was Air Force- but I had a troop who while on deployment got a dear John letter, and the fallout of that led to one of my machine gunners at the main gate being messed up. I ended up writing her a letter and getting her email address from my troop. Didn't like getting involved, but it felt necessary due to the circumstances. My letter basically painted the picture of the impact of her communications (which he was not initiating) and how it affected everyone that worked with her former fiance. It had the desired effect, she ceased contact with him and we were able to get on with the mission.
I know this is super different than your situation, but as her communications had repeatedly interfered with duty assignments and I was concerned with suicide on a much larger scale at the time I chose to get involved. The effect on the mission was my justification, and it ultimately turned out to be the right move. I hope this helps give some perspective on your situation.
I know this is super different than your situation, but as her communications had repeatedly interfered with duty assignments and I was concerned with suicide on a much larger scale at the time I chose to get involved. The effect on the mission was my justification, and it ultimately turned out to be the right move. I hope this helps give some perspective on your situation.
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My first Platoon Sergeant used to say, "I can't fix their parents' mistakes." I don't mean to say your parents raised you to get into it with the MPs, or that I would presume to know how you were raised at all. It happened and yes, whatever repercussions follow, it's up to you whether you'll glean something valuable from it. It may be that your NCO probably knows their responsibility to counsel you and provide you with corrective training on this sub-standard behavior, but knows the power that guilt and shame nurtured by a parent can have on an individual's behavior. If this event was something you wish was not divulged to your family, be glad that you don't need to keep it from them. I hope neither they nor your NCO holds it over your head. Your NCO may know you well or may not, and your family may know you well or may not, but either way, their separate views of you is not who you really are. This is something that leaders have to grapple with in order to develop authentic leadership. Those that have learned to keep up a façade when interacting with others split themselves into many different faces to their own detriment. I guess what I'm saying is don't let the military make you think of yourself as a dirtbag. Instead, let it provide you with the turning point to becoming who you were born to be.
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first and foremost we only have your version of events, if your SFC could enlighten us as to her motivations for calling your parents we could all make a better-formed opinion. with the limited amount of information, we can only make simple deductions. You are a PV2, we do not know if you are of legal drinking age. you were involved in some altercation with an MP, you state that was an argument while you were intoxicated, we do not know your level of intoxication or the context of said argument. Did your SFC make the call to identify a substance abuse problem possibly? without all of the facts, your question seems to have started quite q debate. I would be interested to know all the facts before jumping to a conclusion.
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1SG(P) Dean Mcbride (MPER) (SPHR)
Sgt Bearden, While you may have an opinion, nothing in what you state dignifies, authorizes, or justifies going to a soldiers parents with disciplinary concerns. That may be something a military Doctor (Psychiatrist) may be able to justify. However, it is not within the realm of an NCO to do so. As you stated, "we still do not have all the facts". One of these facts are the type of parental environment the soldier was raised in. There are many types of parents - good, bad and the ugly! When PVT Goll joined the service, he left that behind - it is not within our rights to thrust him back into it! I stand by my initial comment -- there is nothing that justifies or gives the NCO the right to call a soldiers parents - they are not within your Chain of Command.
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1SG(P) Dean Mcbride (MPER) (SPHR)
Sgt Bearden -- Just one additional thought.... I notice in your profile that you are a Patrolmen with the Gretna, Louisiana Police Department. Would you call Gretna parents of 20-something year old adults when you apprehend them for public intoxication and disorderly conduct?
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SGT Ben Bearden
1SG(P) Dean Mcbride (MPER) (SPHR) - Yes I would and have, as the parents deserve to know that their child (minor or adult) is incarcerated and not injured or worse to give them peace of mind. while not a military or discipline issue we are a community and we protect and serve. you stated "Nothing in what you state dignifies, authorizes, or justifies going to a soldiers parents with disciplinary concerns" It may not have been properly indicated so I will reiterate 1. We do not have the full story 2. An NCO has a responsibility to keep their soldiers ready (with discipline being ONE of several) ways to achieve said goal. 3. "That may be something a military Doctor (Psychiatrist) may be able to justify." How would PV2 Goll who wasn't smart enough not to drink too much nor smart enough not to argue with an MP while intoxicated, see one of these medical personnel if not recommended by one of his NCOs? his many years in service? his super keen common sense?
When I mentioned all the facts you are correct we do not know his parental environment, nor do we know if PV2 Goll kills goats for satan. we are not talking about the what if's, which we do not know. yet it seems uncommon that a 1SG would take what a PV2 says at face value as you have, AND defend him while knowing absolutely nothing about them?!? I do not doubt your sincerity in defending his rights or how one aspect may have been handled. I am however pointing out that I would like to know the ENTIRETY of the situation. given that PV2 Goll may not have verbatim stated everything in context and we do not know the entire conversation with the parents. Do I believe a smoke session and good counseling could have worked wonders for PV2 Goll? Hell Yes! But we all know this is the "my feelings are hurt" current military. I would never have believed I would hear a 1SG point-blank take the word of anyone much less a PV2, but here we are
When I mentioned all the facts you are correct we do not know his parental environment, nor do we know if PV2 Goll kills goats for satan. we are not talking about the what if's, which we do not know. yet it seems uncommon that a 1SG would take what a PV2 says at face value as you have, AND defend him while knowing absolutely nothing about them?!? I do not doubt your sincerity in defending his rights or how one aspect may have been handled. I am however pointing out that I would like to know the ENTIRETY of the situation. given that PV2 Goll may not have verbatim stated everything in context and we do not know the entire conversation with the parents. Do I believe a smoke session and good counseling could have worked wonders for PV2 Goll? Hell Yes! But we all know this is the "my feelings are hurt" current military. I would never have believed I would hear a 1SG point-blank take the word of anyone much less a PV2, but here we are
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1SG(P) Dean Mcbride (MPER) (SPHR)
I never took the word of PVT Goll... Only stated and will continue to reiterate the fact that an NCO in the US Army does not have the authority (or as some may think - a God given right) to make calls to a soldier's parents and tell them the troubles he or she has gotten into. Goll's question was "Is this standard procedure in the military or even a typical form of disciplinary action for an NCO to make?" My answer is that "It is not!" I reread all of my comments and could never find anything that related to my defending Goll's activities or taking his word for anything. I also don't feel that this is the "my feelings are hurt" current military.... Military discipline is the same as it was in the "Dark Ages"... A senior NCO goes through his Chain of Command - not through the soldier's parents!
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