Posted on Nov 7, 2014
Disrespected while correcting a Soldier, how would you handle this situation?
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Ok so there I was at a court-martial asking a Soldier why he was wearing ACUs and not ASUs. He started to catch an attitude, so I told him to go to parade rest. He turned away from me looking at my paralegal, putting his hands in his pockets.
My paralegal tells him that he does not need to be looking at him, but at me, because I was the one addressing him, and that he needs to show respect. As the Soldier continues to stare out at my paralegal with his hands in his pockets, I continue to correct him when a civilian comes out to where I was correcting the Soldier stating that she had work to do and I could "yell" at him some other time.
I was so mind boggled and dumbfounded because said civilian used to be in the military. I'm sorry, but the last time I checked the Soldier was given a direct order by a CPT and myself that the duty uniform for the court-martial was ASUs and an alternate uniform had to be approved by the judge, so I was doing my job by asking him why he was in the wrong uniform and then correcting him when he began to disrespect me.
I felt so disrespected I just walked away and sat in a room to cool off.
How would you have handled the situation?
My paralegal tells him that he does not need to be looking at him, but at me, because I was the one addressing him, and that he needs to show respect. As the Soldier continues to stare out at my paralegal with his hands in his pockets, I continue to correct him when a civilian comes out to where I was correcting the Soldier stating that she had work to do and I could "yell" at him some other time.
I was so mind boggled and dumbfounded because said civilian used to be in the military. I'm sorry, but the last time I checked the Soldier was given a direct order by a CPT and myself that the duty uniform for the court-martial was ASUs and an alternate uniform had to be approved by the judge, so I was doing my job by asking him why he was in the wrong uniform and then correcting him when he began to disrespect me.
I felt so disrespected I just walked away and sat in a room to cool off.
How would you have handled the situation?
Disrespect
Civilians
Counseling
Edited 11 y ago
Posted 11 y ago
Responses: 380
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SSG,
I would have added that to his rap sheet, I hope he had the book thrown at him. Don't let it get you down and I wouldn't even think twice about the soldier that's why he was their in the first place. You did the right thing and for the Civilian you did a better job than me cause I would have lit them up too.
V/r
1SG
I would have added that to his rap sheet, I hope he had the book thrown at him. Don't let it get you down and I wouldn't even think twice about the soldier that's why he was their in the first place. You did the right thing and for the Civilian you did a better job than me cause I would have lit them up too.
V/r
1SG
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SFC (Join to see)
1SG (Join to see), unfortunately it wasn't his court-martial, he was a witness in another one. As for the civilian I was so dumbfounded I just walked away. Caught me off guard!
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1SG (Join to see)
Okay so tell me SSG McLamb, you counseled him and reported it to his chain of command. Because that should never go undocumented.
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SGT Mark Grier
Civilian could light you up. Especially if that civilian is a GS-12 or better. That rank has no pull over civilians. He could literally tell you to go f yourself and walk away. Most of us are vets and we know all the fuck-fuck games too.
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MSgt Kerry Lundy
SGT Mark Grier - Do you have a valid reference for what you are saying? You are sounding a lot like what we use to call a barracks lawyer or jailhouse lawyer.
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Snatch his punk ass up and drag him to someplace where appropriate counselling can be administered. Administer said counselling with some form of hardwood tool and change his plea to guilty for being a punk with no regard for good order and discipline and let him find a new lawyer to appeal his BCD.
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I think soldiers today are becoming far more complacent in their duties to uphold the standards. I've seen it on numerous occasions of soldiers not standing at parade rest, disrespecting superiors, and not following orders. Especially reservists, are by far the worst culprits. Coming off of active duty in the reserves, I was bewildered at what I was witnessing. Not standing at parade rest, back talking, not upholding motor pool safety. I had to tell my motor sgt back then an E-4, he needed a ground guide. He told me "No one in the reserves cares". Point is we all have standards to uphold.
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SSgt Win Hamilton
The reserves and national guard are essentially civilian organizations and there is not much anybody can do to change that. I do not see it as a bad thing because the job gets done in an excellent fashion in most cases. The military bowing and scraping is not necessary.
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MSgt Kerry Lundy
MSgt Thomas Harriss - I am also retired USAF I know what a ground guide is but then again I spent most of my career in transportation. I can understand why many in USAF would not understand this term.
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1SG Jeffrey Mullett
I've been in the Army Reserve system for 29 years. In that time I have seen the gambit from complacency to extreme adherence to regulation and tradition. The point is; what leadership allows. Your motor sergeant, or in this case, a Mechanic 63B, was wrong, and if his chain wasn't holding him to standard, they were wrong also. As a senior NCO, I have been the one to hold my soldiers to standard, even when some of my command staff didn't want to observe regulation, or in some cases, common sense. I was an 88M at one time in my career, so I know my way around a motor pool and the need for a ground guide, especially in up-armored vehicles because they have serious blind spot issues. I have worked in motor pools where the commander established the policy that any time a vehicle is operated within the fence line, you were required to have a ground guide. So, SPC Jimenez, please don't confuse one area within the Reserves as ALL of the Reserves. Your Mechanic was wrong to say "no one in the Reserves cares", because if I heard him say that, there would have been some serious corrective action.
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The lack of discipline starts in BCT. It is allowed to continue in units as no one wants to take the bull by the horns and do their jobs, this is at all levels. The fear of reprisal from SHARP, EO, and no support from Officers and Senior NCO's is appalling. I know this is the way society and congress wants it, but we as leaders need to lead, sometimes a good "Wall to Wall" counseling session needs to happen as well as total peer pressure. Get rid of the "Red Cards" in BCT, make those Privates responsible and accountable.
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1SG Jeffrey Mullett
LTC Joseph George - Sir, I don't wish to disrespect your rank, but when you bring politics into the discussion, you show that you are the problem and not the "Liberal Whiners" you talk about. If I worked for you, I would have a hard time keeping my military bearing.
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LTC Joseph George
1SG Jeffrey Mullett - Apparently you misinterpreted what I was trying to convey. I only pointed out the problem with the issue. You would not have a hard time keeping your military bearing working for me, as you do not know what I am like as a leader. I commanded an OSUT unit and I saw this BS come into the service. However, when I was in command of that OSUT unit I was tough, and everyone knew it. Now that being said, when you get to the level I was at in the Army it gets very poitical on what you can and cannot do. And yes, the Liberal Whiners do exist, in all ranks.
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1SG Jeffrey Mullett
Sir,
I have been in the Army for 29 (+) years, and when you use terms like, "Liberal Whiners", you are wrong. There is no political affiliation with the problem it has to do with laziness. Pure and simple. I don't doubt you run a "tight ship", but I don't agree with using that kind of bigotry to get your message across.
I have been in the Army for 29 (+) years, and when you use terms like, "Liberal Whiners", you are wrong. There is no political affiliation with the problem it has to do with laziness. Pure and simple. I don't doubt you run a "tight ship", but I don't agree with using that kind of bigotry to get your message across.
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1SG Jeffrey Mullett
To clarify, and you can vote me down again if you feel it is necessary. The interchange I have had with you didn't come from me "Misinterpreting" anything. You have the wrong way of looking at the problem and your tact in making your point. The fact that you voted down my legitimate comment, because you didn't agree with it just makes my point that much more poignant. I understand the need to hold your Soldiers to a level of personal and unit pride. However, the attitudes of our culture have changed, NOT just the "Liberal Whiners" as you put it. I have seen middle and top ranked NCOs and Officers avoid correcting others, and holding their troops accountable, because they don't want to be seen as a "bad guy". But, most often it is because they don't give it the level of importance it should have. Discipline is important in nearly every aspect of what we do. That includes how you communicate.
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Sgt Chris Stergos
Ah, come on SgtMaj... y'all always told us to handle it at lowest level possible. No need to take up a SgtMaj's valuable time when a simple "extra military physical training session" with the right Sgt could fix the matter.
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It sounds like it didn't matter who was giving the order to that soldier. At that point it's insubordination and disobedience to a direct order.
Main thing is to maintain your calm demeanor and focus on winning the war, not the battle. Get the troop's name, etc., and write them up. And an MP or two to clap on irons is always a motivator.
Main thing is to maintain your calm demeanor and focus on winning the war, not the battle. Get the troop's name, etc., and write them up. And an MP or two to clap on irons is always a motivator.
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SGT (Join to see)
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"Gunny",
She could easily have added "out of uniform" AND "absent from place of duty" to "insubordination" and "disobedience of a lawful order", as part of being "present for duty" includes being "in the proper uniform". Too bad this happened so long ago.
"Gunny",
She could easily have added "out of uniform" AND "absent from place of duty" to "insubordination" and "disobedience of a lawful order", as part of being "present for duty" includes being "in the proper uniform". Too bad this happened so long ago.
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1LT (Join to see) is my enforcer......
In reality I would have told the civilian to back off (as I would be in a heated mood) and that when the "soldier" was ready to properly address me and answer the question then we could continue. Until then, or until the Judge states otherwise, it was up to the "soldier" when we were to begin.
In reality I would have told the civilian to back off (as I would be in a heated mood) and that when the "soldier" was ready to properly address me and answer the question then we could continue. Until then, or until the Judge states otherwise, it was up to the "soldier" when we were to begin.
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CPT (Join to see)
1LT (Join to see) How could I resist the set-up he gave me???? It was perfect nonsense!
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I would have turned to the civilian and said "with all due respect, I am in the middle of correcting a soldier for disobeying a direct order, and he may be the next court martial if he doesn't soon pull his ass out of his end and show me some respect, so I apoligize for the disturbance, but I also have a job to do." Then I would have went right back at that soldier and dressed him down, and SSgt, this is coming from an old school SSgt with 15 yos in the Air Force! I don't know how you do deal with this generation in the military, because there is no way in hell we would have been able to do this and get away with it. I saw people get LOC's for being 2 mins late to roll call, I saw people get a month of Dorm Duty or Base clean up for snickering the wrong way. My times have changed. Maybe some of us old schoolers need to come out from the shadows and shape up these lil punks!
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