Posted on Nov 7, 2014
Disrespected while correcting a Soldier, how would you handle this situation?
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Ok so there I was at a court-martial asking a Soldier why he was wearing ACUs and not ASUs. He started to catch an attitude, so I told him to go to parade rest. He turned away from me looking at my paralegal, putting his hands in his pockets.
My paralegal tells him that he does not need to be looking at him, but at me, because I was the one addressing him, and that he needs to show respect. As the Soldier continues to stare out at my paralegal with his hands in his pockets, I continue to correct him when a civilian comes out to where I was correcting the Soldier stating that she had work to do and I could "yell" at him some other time.
I was so mind boggled and dumbfounded because said civilian used to be in the military. I'm sorry, but the last time I checked the Soldier was given a direct order by a CPT and myself that the duty uniform for the court-martial was ASUs and an alternate uniform had to be approved by the judge, so I was doing my job by asking him why he was in the wrong uniform and then correcting him when he began to disrespect me.
I felt so disrespected I just walked away and sat in a room to cool off.
How would you have handled the situation?
My paralegal tells him that he does not need to be looking at him, but at me, because I was the one addressing him, and that he needs to show respect. As the Soldier continues to stare out at my paralegal with his hands in his pockets, I continue to correct him when a civilian comes out to where I was correcting the Soldier stating that she had work to do and I could "yell" at him some other time.
I was so mind boggled and dumbfounded because said civilian used to be in the military. I'm sorry, but the last time I checked the Soldier was given a direct order by a CPT and myself that the duty uniform for the court-martial was ASUs and an alternate uniform had to be approved by the judge, so I was doing my job by asking him why he was in the wrong uniform and then correcting him when he began to disrespect me.
I felt so disrespected I just walked away and sat in a room to cool off.
How would you have handled the situation?
Disrespect
Civilians
Counseling
Edited 11 y ago
Posted 11 y ago
Responses: 380
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First off, NO DISRESPECT TO THE CAPT. This is a perfect example of the PUSSIFICATION of our military!!! I was in the Marines in the early 80's, We lived in squad bays, had wall lockers, and foot lockers. Green wool blankets and boots lined under our rack. We shared a room with maybe 30 other guys. We lived, ate, slept in the same place. We traveled in fire teams wherever we went. The culture of our military has been on a continual down hill slide for years. It starts in Recruit Training (Basic/ Boot Camp), candy coating training, dumbing down standards so that we look good for the social experiment that the candyasses in Congress are trying to perform to appease the feminist movement. Equal rights are great, but if you can't perform to the men's standards, to bad so sad!!! The military needs clerks and cooks, just like in the old days, if a male was under performing,hello mess hall, yeah MESS HALL, Dinning Facility sounds like a college campus! So do DORMROOMS! Soldiers, Sailors, Marines, and Airmen Live in a Barracks ( You know that Military Thing) they eat in a Chow/Mess Hall (That Damn Military Thing again), They report for Duty, not go to work ( Again that pesky Military Thing again)When are we going to stop treating these young men and women like College kids and treat them like the Members of the Armed Forces that they are. Get back to training warriors who also are truck drivers, mechanics, etc. Not clerks that go to the range once a year, go to the field maybe twice in four years!!! This Sgt should have been before the Bn C.O. yesterday!!! Treat them like 3rd Graders they will act like the spoiled, entitled babies that got participation trophies just for showing up.
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MSgt Kerry Lundy
I also remember when we Airmen went to the mess hall to eat and to pull KP when your name showed up on the duty roster. Only lived in open bay barracks in Basic Training and while in Vietnam and Thailand. other times we had barracks rooms with anywhere from 1 to 3 room mates. Had standby open locker inspections at least once a month. While in Tech School had inspections barracks and open ranks at least 5 days a week and if it was 2 or more going somewhere on base you marched you did not just stroll along. This was in the mid 60's. My first permanent duty station Andrews AFB where we had a formal parade every month in dress blues with a band not recorded music. I was also detailed to what they called a "Court of Honor" on Pennsylvania Ave for the King of Saudi Arabia and POTUS LBJ. We had a Base wide police call every Friday morning. Presidential support unit and hanger was down the street from my barracks and even senior(top 3) NCO's made police call there. I believe we had better unit cohesion then.
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SGT (Join to see)
Oh my God. Why in the world would you make a stupid statement like that. Maybe you men can meet. I mean exceed the requirements you can say something till then its best to keep quite.
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SFC (Join to see) A poignant Staff Judge Advocate I worked with was fond of saying "stupid isn't against the law, but if you look hard enough you will find something that is." Perhaps this Soldier needs a charge sheet. Direct order from a superior Commissioned Officer to be in the duty uniform. Questioned by a more senior NCO and then violates a regulatory requirement when being addressed by a more senior NCO. It is time for this Soldier to pay for his poor judgment, lack of respect, and inability to follow orders. Some Soldiers cannot be adjusted regardless of how hard you try. I would suggest talking to his NCO support channel to see if he is typically a problem child, and then take action.
Oh yes, and SFC (Join to see) thank you for all you do as a Special Victim NCO.
Oh yes, and SFC (Join to see) thank you for all you do as a Special Victim NCO.
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SFC (Join to see)
SFC Dr. Joseph Finck, BS, MA, DSS, The chain of command handled the situation as I was TDY assisting with a court-martial. Ahhh and I wish I could meet that SJA, I like the way he/she thinks.
By the way, being the SV NCO has been one of the most rewarding positions I've held so far in my career. Thank you for supporting the change!
By the way, being the SV NCO has been one of the most rewarding positions I've held so far in my career. Thank you for supporting the change!
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You should have told the civilian to stay in their lane. The civilian is not in the military so what he or she had to say was irrelevant.
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Russell Butler
Then the civilian could have filed a grievance for creating a hostile work environment. The civilian may take some flack for that, but it would end up on your record and become a big headache and the civilian would win in an administrative court. That kind of behavior, although effective, is not tolerated anymore in a professional setting and there can be legal ramifications for you and your supervisors for creating a hostile work environment and not making a reasonable accommodation to take the disciplinary matter elsewhere.
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SGT (Join to see)
Real simple. With a smile, politely say something to the effect of, “Ma’am, this is NCO business. The soldier is improperly dressed for today’s proceedings and I need to know why. Please wait a moment, and I’ll let you know when the soldier has anwerered my question sufficiently.” And then just stare at her. She should get the hint to have a seat.
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PO1 Eric Booker
Then drag the carcass into the freezer to be prepped for his "Big Chicken Dinner"...
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I would have simply snapped to parade rest and answered you in correct fashion. Better yet, I would have shown up in proper uniform in the first place, SSG. That soldier was tore up. And I'm assuming his first line supervisor was probably 8up too
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GySgt Gunnar Ulfsax
I agree with you Pvt Stewart! 99.99999% of the time, when I ran across a "shit bird" troop, I could look at his immidiate chain of command, and see where the problem STARTED! That's why I ALWAYS enforced the "lead by example" approach with my NCO's. And, if I had a young troop that was a clusterf%¥k, I didn't punish them, I'd punish their shitbird NCO.
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You did your duty as an NCO in making the on the spot correction, and gathering information on why he was out of uniform. The soldier obviously did not give a damn. In my opinion, you did your part and handle yourself appropriately being in the location that you were.
Now, the civilian was in the wrong for being disrespectful in front of a junior soldier.
Now, the civilian was in the wrong for being disrespectful in front of a junior soldier.
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Cpl Steven Wilson
Maintain your discipline. If you can speak to one shitbird in chains, you can do it to a company. You are a 1SGT so you obviously learned how.
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SFC (Join to see), kudos to you for maintaining control. Like others, I find this hard to believe/fathom.
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1. Notify the MPs and have the Soldier detained for disobeying an order and other violations of UCMJ.
2. Notify the Soldier's Chain of Command about the status of the Soldier; I'm sure his chain of command would have no issues adding a few more article violations to his/her current list of violations.
3. Counsel the civilian on his interference of military issues then notify his leadership about what this civilian had said.
4. Do all this with calmness and professionalism, and continue to let the Soldier dig himself into an even deeper hole.
2. Notify the Soldier's Chain of Command about the status of the Soldier; I'm sure his chain of command would have no issues adding a few more article violations to his/her current list of violations.
3. Counsel the civilian on his interference of military issues then notify his leadership about what this civilian had said.
4. Do all this with calmness and professionalism, and continue to let the Soldier dig himself into an even deeper hole.
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SFC Freddie Porter
But prepare yourself personally and professionally in advance to execute those steps when required. Without prior preparation, you'll not be able to respond automatically.
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i'm to old school...it would have been wall to wall counseling...but this is the new army....
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CPL (Join to see)
The new army all they do is give wall to wall counselings. Lol you can't expect the army to change or things to happen when all you do is give a soldier counselings after counselings. Find an approach that will benefit you and the army. The issue at hand is the fact that people in these senior positions try to control grown men and women. People have different minds and think differently. To treat every person with the same mentality is just wrong on your part. To think that counselings will help. You really need to rethink on how you react with people. A lot of SGTs don't know how to react to people. That's the thing.
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LTC Robin P.
What exactly do you suggest? We have regulations; we have standards; counseling is how we communicate expectations and consequences when people don't conform to those regulations and standards. You are a junior NCO - if you were disrespected when making a uniform correction, how would you handle it?
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Sgt Michael Sayles
LTC Robin P. - My Company Gunny in Vietnam would remove a person for disregarding an order or for possession to a private place for personal counseling upon returning the person in question would usually go to sickbay for minor physical adjustment. That was usually only a one time thing not many wanted another counseling session with Gunny Douglas.
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LTC Robin P.
Sgt Michael Sayles - I kind of suspect that the good CPL who commented above might not realize what "wall to wall counseling" actually means. I am a little concerned that a junior NCO seems to think that it's wrong to "try to control grown men and women" or to "think that counselings will help." I mean, dang, it's the ARMY, what did we expect? Everyone just does their own special snowflake thing and leaders are not going to enforce standards? Wrong.
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Assault. Get me a lawyer. Actually no I'll plead guilty and love every minute of it.
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