Posted on May 19, 2015
Do any Veterans see any similarities between the Iraq War and the Vietnam War?
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Warfare
Vietnam War
Operation Iraqi Freedom (OIF)
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 24
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Same war, different battlefield, different generation. History repeats because we fail to learn from it.
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That there was no official beaten enemy and as soon as we left, the people that we were fighting against rolled in and started a mass genocide.
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I love history. When I read about both, I do see startling similarities in the fact that it does not appear that those in charge (ie the administration calling the shots) have the cajones to say, "this is war. Do what you need to win it." We try to be compassionate towards the civilians caught in the fight. However, it is war. There are going to be casualties. The idea is to make the other side suffer so much that they say "we quit!"
I know that wars of this nature are a bit different as the enemy ebbs & flows. It also appears that leadership (non-military) have a hard time listening to those in the know (the troops on the ground w/ in-zone experience).
I know that wars of this nature are a bit different as the enemy ebbs & flows. It also appears that leadership (non-military) have a hard time listening to those in the know (the troops on the ground w/ in-zone experience).
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SSgt (Join to see)
And they almost seem incredulous that the enemy does not follow by the rules they set oh so many years ago.
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Maj (Join to see)
If we came as conquerors than the idea of causing such massive suffering that the other side quits is relevant, but the stated goal and intent was to arrive in Iraq as liberators bringing about regime change. To do that well you have to have to focus hard on who your friends are more than who your enemies are. You also need to give the liberated people a stake in the success of the new country. If all the jobs supporting the regime change go to overseas contractors, it is easy for a sociopath from Al Qaeda to come in to recruit and convince an 18-24 year old male that they cannot get a job or start a family or have a life because of the Infidels. Primarily Paul Bremmer's decision to disband the Iraqi Army and exclude anyone with Baath Party affiliations from any position in government were monumental in strangling the military and state department efforts, but we made some subtle tactical and strategic moves that prevented the Iraqi people form engaging in the economic benefits of rebuilding Iraq. Think of it this way if you were a heavy equipment operator and another country liberated your homeland from a legitimate tyrant but for the next 10 years gave every highway construction project to not only companies but individual heavy equipment operators from 6,000 miles away, you might be pretty burned too. It is a vastly oversimplified example but still holds some merit.
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SSG Robert Blair
Geneva Conventions ROE should only apply if we are at war with another who has agreed as well. Otherwise the battles should be played as equally as does our enemy.
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SSgt (Join to see)
I agree, Maj (sorry, I can't link you because your name is private). Bremmer screwed the Iraqi people, & thereby screwed us because he set us up for failure. He refused to listen to the people on the ground. It was his way or nothing at all.
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With out going I into details, I have noticed that we have a very short memory and seem to have to relearn some of the same things over and over every generation. I am at a loss to understand why that is so, as repeating the same mistakes over and over again is the definition of insanity, and it always costs lives. Why would anyone think that helicopters and Humvees are immune to RPGs, they weren't 40 years ago and still aren't.
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Yeah. Can't win if politicians are calling the shots. Presidents should only be allowed to claim the start of a war and tell when to end it (especially since many have no military experience and never been on the receiving end of a bullet, RPG, grenade or IED. We have Generals who's job it is to manage action during war and during the extraction process.
These politicians expect us to die for our country, but wait until we are shot or killed before we can defend ourselves because they have no concept of it.
They wonder why soldiers flip and go on killing against any order or get out of the military and remain hostile towards them and the military.
These politicians expect us to die for our country, but wait until we are shot or killed before we can defend ourselves because they have no concept of it.
They wonder why soldiers flip and go on killing against any order or get out of the military and remain hostile towards them and the military.
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Yes.... unfortunately SGT Jamell Culbreath. This has come up before, many times, but when I was in thick of it, I could not see it.
Early on, many called GWOT, OIF and OEF, our generations Vietnam. I thought Iraq had a better chance of success, when we left than Afghanistan ever would. We left it is good shape, but they were not ready, willing, or up to the task. That, in retrospect, sounds a lot like our pull out of Vietnam, and then a in short order the North invaded the South and achieved their war aims; a unified Vietnam.
Like Vietnam, our war aims we not always clear. Additionally, like Vietnam, our Army (military) is war, but not our nation. That is not a recipe for success.
We took territory in Iraq more than once, sounded eerily familiar, and when left all the gains were lost... Now, once again we are trying to decide what to next... We have forces on the ground again...
When was the last time, we (the USA) were all in, when it comes to war, conflict, etc...
Early on, many called GWOT, OIF and OEF, our generations Vietnam. I thought Iraq had a better chance of success, when we left than Afghanistan ever would. We left it is good shape, but they were not ready, willing, or up to the task. That, in retrospect, sounds a lot like our pull out of Vietnam, and then a in short order the North invaded the South and achieved their war aims; a unified Vietnam.
Like Vietnam, our war aims we not always clear. Additionally, like Vietnam, our Army (military) is war, but not our nation. That is not a recipe for success.
We took territory in Iraq more than once, sounded eerily familiar, and when left all the gains were lost... Now, once again we are trying to decide what to next... We have forces on the ground again...
When was the last time, we (the USA) were all in, when it comes to war, conflict, etc...
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The lack of an effective operational definition of "victory" comes to mind.
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All wars have similarities. Wars are war. They will always be a loser and a winner. In Vietnam we lost support for that war. We left a country that we knew couldn't win that war. Iraq had a shot. They messed it up. They had more of a chance than Southern Vietnam did. In addition Iraq has a major ally in Iran as Southern Vietnam didn't. The only part of this that is the same is that we helped the losing side.
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Yeah, politicians wouldn't let us win either one and started crying for us to pull out when they couldn't figure out why their approach wasn't working. Hearts and minds is a great concept, and, in a war like this, an indispensable concept. That said, you can't send soldiers in to do a job, and then micromanage the way they do it. ROE has it's place, but can easily become way to restricted. Are they a threat? Can you tell me why? Good, shoot them. Can't tell me why they're a threat? Then it's probably not necessary to engage that target at this time. Simple. If the politicians are afraid someone might get hurt, then they probably shouldn't have sent us in the first place.
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CPT (Join to see)
I don't think we were really helping at all. We did the fighting. We won their freedom. Nothing given is ever appreciated. It was going to happen eventually. This is their time to raise up. We lost a lot of battle in the Revolutionary War but we came to win. I hope they can get their stuff together to do that.
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SPC (Join to see)
True. Would have been better, I think, to make them stand on their own two feet much, much earlier on.
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SGT Anthony Bussing
I doubt it...this area of the world has been ruled by kings and dictators since the dawn of time...it is not in the DNA of these people to understand "freedom" and "democracy"
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