Posted on May 30, 2017
Do combat arms soldiers look down on fellow combat arms brethren if they have deployed and not been awarded a combat badge/medal/ribbon?
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It seems like something so trivial, but is just deploying and doing your job enough to keep the respect of your combat arms peers? Does the fact that you were hit by an IED on a convoy, close enough to a falling mortar round, or engaged by small arms fire really make one a more qualified combat arms soldier? What are thoughts on those who were never in the wrong place at the wrong time?
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 188
Most do, to be truthful. Most guys with a CIB/CMB look down on (or at least look sideways at) people with a CAB, and everyone looks down on (or sideways at) people without any badge. I don't fully agree with it, and have known some real great Soldiers who don't have any validating heraldry on their uniform.
But fairness aside, especially in maneuver units, it makes some sense to at least have a bit of deference to folks who have done the maneuver thing for real. I don't buy into the looking down on others thing, but I also don't really buy the "we're all the same" thing either.
Everyone gets my Respect. Some things get my attention. Badges, Deeds, Reputation, they are all items of validation, and pretending otherwise is overlooking some realities of humanity I think.
But fairness aside, especially in maneuver units, it makes some sense to at least have a bit of deference to folks who have done the maneuver thing for real. I don't buy into the looking down on others thing, but I also don't really buy the "we're all the same" thing either.
Everyone gets my Respect. Some things get my attention. Badges, Deeds, Reputation, they are all items of validation, and pretending otherwise is overlooking some realities of humanity I think.
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SGT (Join to see)
I was attached to an infantry platoon. Commo need. Got my cab, some jokes were cracked, I then said if you were better at your job I wouldn’t have to do it for you. Just about every e-4 and below got hot while senior leadership laughed. My two cents
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CPT William Jones
All one has to do to get CIB is have grunt mos,be in grunt slot then get shot at with direct fire weapons. They are the only ones that can set it. The combat engineer, arty FO, commo guy stringing phone wire in same mud,cold don’t get CIB. I think expert infantry badge is higher. You have to work and pas mos test to get it
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SSG (Join to see)
The young and dumb have aspirations of greatness based off some badge they have been told makes them bigger men/women, service is service. So few raise their hands to serve this nation, as leaders we need to make that the point above everything else. The painful memories which come with the earning of these combat awards never go away unfortunately, and this is what should be told to these service members.
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We definitely size each other up by what is worn on our chest. My personal story is I was an 0311/0369 Marine for 8 years 3 combat deployments in both Iraq and Afg. Got out, went National Guard as 92G (cook) can't wear a CAB or CIB or combat patch. So in my BDU's it looks like I have never deployed or have been awarded a combat action ribbon. I defiantly notice a difference in soldiers after they find out my history. Back to answer your question do they look down them? I think some do, but not all. I have learned over time if someone is trying to degrade you because you are lacking a piece of flare it is because they are childish and do not understand how the military works. Does the person that gets the CAB, CIB or CAR for a mortar round landing 800m away have any more combat experience than someone that has been at live fire range?
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SSgt Rito Rodriguez
As a retired Marine who spent two tours in Viet-Nam I saw a lot of action from both tours. But as far as I am concern any person who wears the uniform of any branch is tops with me. I feel that you would had gone to combat if you were sent, I was just luck to have gone.
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LTC Andrae Evans
SGT John Manasco took the words right out of my mouth. The issue may be the different rules in how Marines wear and are authorized to wear the Marine combat patch. I am not an expert, so I will let a brother Marine answer.
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That is how it works. Does it mean it is right? No, but then we gravitate to those that are successful. We view those with badges and tabs as being successful. Comparing those with all of the badges and tabs to those without would mean that those without them are not as successful or experienced. As an Infantry Officer is it expected that you are Ranger qualified. If you don't have a tab then you are viewed lesser than your peers. Now, as a National Guard Officer I was one of few in my home state with a tab. At the time when I was drilling I was the only PL in my BDE with a tab that I knew of. In that case I was viewed in a different light.
I currently work with a group of soldiers that all but a couple have combat time and all of us are Ranger Qualified. I can't say I have seen a group of soldiers on their level. So if you were to see one squad that all of their soldiers were Ranger Qualified and one squad that no one was Ranger qualified I bet money that most people would opt to work with the squad with the Rangers in it.
I don't think we look down on those that don't have the awards but we look up to those that do have them. If a person feels they are on par with them that is their response. Tabs and badges may not correlate to being a better soldier, but it is a good maker.
Being honest, the pic I posted is my uniform. I am about to go back into the operational Army and out of the TRADOC world. If you could pick your PL and you saw a PL with my qualifications and skill levels surround by 5 brand new LTs without them, once again, you would naturally gravitate to the person with them.
I don't envy anyone with more badges or view them differently. If you are a jumpmaster and pathfinder then they can run a DZ. In that case they are more qualified than I and can accomplish task I can not. So why would be upset if they were view more of an asset than I. They are. I chose to go into the Airborne Infantry world. Schools are easier to come by. Some MOSs don't have that option. But then they should only look as far as their peers and not the rest of the Army. There is always someone better than you but then there might be a lot of others that don't have your drive an passion that are not as productive.
I hope this explains it well enough.
I currently work with a group of soldiers that all but a couple have combat time and all of us are Ranger Qualified. I can't say I have seen a group of soldiers on their level. So if you were to see one squad that all of their soldiers were Ranger Qualified and one squad that no one was Ranger qualified I bet money that most people would opt to work with the squad with the Rangers in it.
I don't think we look down on those that don't have the awards but we look up to those that do have them. If a person feels they are on par with them that is their response. Tabs and badges may not correlate to being a better soldier, but it is a good maker.
Being honest, the pic I posted is my uniform. I am about to go back into the operational Army and out of the TRADOC world. If you could pick your PL and you saw a PL with my qualifications and skill levels surround by 5 brand new LTs without them, once again, you would naturally gravitate to the person with them.
I don't envy anyone with more badges or view them differently. If you are a jumpmaster and pathfinder then they can run a DZ. In that case they are more qualified than I and can accomplish task I can not. So why would be upset if they were view more of an asset than I. They are. I chose to go into the Airborne Infantry world. Schools are easier to come by. Some MOSs don't have that option. But then they should only look as far as their peers and not the rest of the Army. There is always someone better than you but then there might be a lot of others that don't have your drive an passion that are not as productive.
I hope this explains it well enough.
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CPT George Langley
CPT (Join to see) - Thanks for the update. Rules change, but not that much since even a straight "run" from day one of basic Airborne to the last day of Jumpmaster training would result in the required total number of jumps to earn the badge upgrade. E-5 or above. Of course. I wasn't thinking about that because I was O-3. "Wait" one year? That also makes sense given that we don't have to turn out entire divisions of Airborne from scratch anymore. Most of all, there is no point in giving Jumpmaster training to people who aren't assigned to an Airborne unit for at least one year and expecting to be Airborne for a few more years. In that one year one would need seven more jumps and those being from high performance aircraft is a given. "Fun jumps" included, naturally.
All in all, though, I was wrong and I appreciate the correction.
All in all, though, I was wrong and I appreciate the correction.
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SGT (Join to see)
Well said LT. As a young infantryman I always looked up more to my leaders with a tab and a CIB. As an infantryman that’s your instant credibility. I’ve got a CIB and with deployments dying down it’s becoming a relatively rare award among us jr NCOs
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CPT William Jones
Tabs are earned some a little easier some harder sapper and ranger are probably toughest. But we do wear our resume when we get all dressed up for a formal ball and impress the ladies
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I had a buddy that said it best... “Not everybody went into battle, but evey one of them signed up to.”
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As long as people are truthful about what they did I respect them! If your job is to drive a trucks and never fired a shot, I respect that. It’s not everyone job to fight, or does everyone get the opportunity. Just be truthful about what you did!
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For me, personally, I don't care about tabs and awards as much s I do when I see a slick sleeve Senior NCO or Officer. As a PVT in Desert Storm, everyone looked up to the SFC Vietnam Vet we had in our Battalion that could do it all. He was our mortar sergeant and then commanded a Bradley after we lost an NCO. That Combat patch means a lot too me.
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MSG David Johnson
Same situation almost, our 1SG that was brought in a couple weeks before deployment in January 1991.
I also had a PSG at one time, a Vietnam Vet, the story around the unit is that he made E-7 through unit attrition on his first tour. He got stateside and told him a 19 year old kid was too young to be an E-7, even though he had orders, so they busted him back down to E-3.
He was my PSG in 1983, and my 1SG on a subsequent tour to the same unit in 1986.
The man knew his stuff and passed it along, and he definitely did not look down on those of us who did not have any bling.
I also had a PSG at one time, a Vietnam Vet, the story around the unit is that he made E-7 through unit attrition on his first tour. He got stateside and told him a 19 year old kid was too young to be an E-7, even though he had orders, so they busted him back down to E-3.
He was my PSG in 1983, and my 1SG on a subsequent tour to the same unit in 1986.
The man knew his stuff and passed it along, and he definitely did not look down on those of us who did not have any bling.
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I wore my jump wings to church yesterday preceding Memorial Day. A Sister walked up to me, stared at the badge, and then said, "That's nice and pretty," as she stroked the wings. "Is that a . . . is that an ice cream cone . . . with wings?"
After explaining the badge she stepped back with her hands over her mouth. I got a good chuckle over it.
After explaining the badge she stepped back with her hands over her mouth. I got a good chuckle over it.
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Well, I'm not a combat arms MOS, so I can understand and appreciate everyone's contribution to the bigger fight at hand. That being said though, no I don't believe having a shiny badge or whatever makes you any more or less qualified as a combat arms soldier. I've known plenty of Marines who could qualify as a bag of turds but they've got a nice fat stack of chest candy to show off on their uniform. A little token on your uniform doesn't mean you know how to do your job. Knowing your job means you know how to do your job.
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MSgt Andre Stringer
Most combat Marines & soldiers I know did not ask for shiny badges they risked their lives for serving this country. There are wimp ass REMS who tried to get those awards without risking their lives. Whining ass holes like them disgust me. I would trade my stack of ribbons for the Marines who died under my command. They did not have a stack but got the Purple Heart. I know many combat vets of several MOS that are qualified at their jobs and non combat types that are not. Some worked for me. They turned out to be a bunch of crying, whining piss ants with no discipline who hated combat vets and grunts. Be careful who you call a turd Cpl, You may be one. I know you are not a grunt, never at risk in combat, have problems with awards for those who did. I can respect REMs with no shiny badges and would expect more out a Marine NCO who may lack proper leadership
training.
training.
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Cpl Colton Laney
I agree with you. I had more respect for my platoon sergeant that didn't have CAR vs one of my sergeants that did have a CAR mainly because he didn't know his job AT ALL. As for you, Master Sergeant, just because you got your feelings hurt doesn't mean you rate acting like a spiteful 12 year old to this man expressing his opinion. If you wanna start trouble, go to the comments section on Youtube.
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Just another reason I am thankful to be a Marine. The EG&A says all that needs to be said. The rest are just footnotes. Well, perhaps excepting the MoH. But even that is as much a product of opportunity and circumstance.
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MSG Dan Castaneda
I bet most of my buddies in MARSOC would disagree. They earned their wings and dive badge and wear them with pride. Its what separates them from regular Marines.
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LtCol George Carlson
MSG Dan Castaneda - Taking pride in one's accomplishments does not require "looking down" or demeaning others. I personally think that it is only the immature who cannot value their own achievements without turning it into, "you ain't s--t 'cause you ain't like me."
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MSgt Andre Stringer
Do you know the difference between Force Recon & MARSOC? When the current MARSOC was formed most came from Force Recon. They were jump & scuba qualified, most MARSOC are not. It can get confusing because in the FMF we have SOC but they are not considered SpecOps like the MARSOC. The new MARSOC after some debate are now called Marine Raiders like the ones in WW2. The basic missions of Force Recon & MARSOC are different, but some consider Force is trained on a higher level.That is why all Force is jump & scuba qualified & most MARSOC are not. BTW I was a sky diver. In the 70s you had to make 10 static line jumps before you could free fall. Learned to scuba dive when stationed at WNY in DC when they had Navy dive school there. My main problem was clearing the mask under water. The panic training was fun, sharing a air tank under water, dive tables, bends, gas dives, how long you can safely stay at certain depths, timed rates, effects of drinking, much more but you already know all of this, because you beings in SpecOps know more. I was only a Marine grunt. lol
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