Posted on Dec 14, 2020
Do I need to render a salute to an officer when my hands are occupied?
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This is the second time I’ve gotten reprimanded for this situation. I was walking with a binder in my hands, and a mug in the other hand. I walked past a CSM and a CPT, greeted both as I was unable to salute. CSM stopped me and demanded that I drop everything to salute the CPT. AR 600-25 states that I am not required to render a salute if I am carrying articles with both hands. What is the right answer?
Posted 5 y ago
Responses: 633
What we were told in OI, back in the '60s was that you just DON'T carry things in your right hand, unless in an emergency (we were all nurses & could have IVs or other critical equipment, as well as a patient to manage), and salute all superior officers. I don't know if that rule has changed, since, or not, but somehow a notebook and cup of coffee don't strike me as valid reason to not salute.
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The right answer depends on the attitude of the officer. I would hope that most would be happy with a "Good day Sir" and a nod, in that kind of situation, but there are sticklers out there. I'm of Prussian decent but I can be lenient and understanding. I certainly don't expect a snappy salute while you have one hand occupied and a cup of hot coffee in your hand. That could mess up things on both sides, and add a cleaning bill. MY answer would have been; "That's OK troop, carry on." (Assuming it was a EM, not an OCS candidate, LOL)
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COL Carl Jensen
When as a "US" Pvt E-2, I was waiting for a light to change facing the direction I was walking. All of a sudden I am verbally attacked by a Major coming out of the car that was on my left for not saluting him. My excuse? 20/200 eyesight on my left eye. He came from the corner of my impaired eye. He called my unit and advised my CO, but when I told the CO he said to forget about it. As the years went by I remembered that incident. There is always an explanation for the lack of salute if you want to pursue it. I always saw myself as an officer, not a God. Branch courses were murder, my right arm must have turned into Hulk's. I will always recall in training exercises; " Don't salute me soldier, are you trying to get me killed? LOL, and "Don't click your heels, the enemy will hear you." (Laughing face meme)
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There was a 2LT in the battalion that had a big thing about being saluted. I was carrying a box one time that required the use of both hands. Came across the Lt and gave him a greeting. His response was soldier you are required to salute an officer. So I stopped walking and put the box down. Stood up and came to attention and saluted him. Sorry bastard did not even return the salute at that time.
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CPT William Jones
He shouldn’t have had that attitude but he defiantly should have returned your salute and it was defiantly wrong. I was mostly an officer on active duty but an em first. And when such would have reported him to my CO during open door policy during early 60’s.
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Really - never had a situation where I couldn’t carry a binder under my arm and a coffee cup in the other. It was NOT impractical for you to honor regular military courtesy. Had it been impractical to salute, I suspect an appropriate nod and greeting would have been enough.
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It could just be me, but if your coffee (or whatever is in the mug) is more important than your evaluations and future advancement, then I suggest keep doing what you're doing...otherwise I think you might want to come up with a new plan for carrying that mug in the presence (or possible presence) of Officers. .
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Personally i believe there is more to the story than is being told here. 1ST. Read what you posted again like the quote from AR 600-25.
Now go complain to the CSM let me know when you do this because i want to watch while the CSM First verbally rips into you for your classic try to not render a Salute. Then as part of your retrain has you stand in front of post HQ with your little book in one hand and the Mug in the other.
Just how big of a binder was this and how big is the mug?, Where were you going and why did you need the binder and the Mug? Was the binder a Copy of AR 600-25 so you could back up your dumb plan that has been tried by maybe a Million Soldiers and they keep getting caught and retrained.
Cradle the binder in the palm of your left hand and hold your Mug with the fingers of your left hand(1 finger through the handle and your thumb on the rim works the best. Then when you get the time look at all the AR's again and find some thing original to try and get your bragging rights. This is beneath you and typical e-4 mafia stunt. JMT
Now go complain to the CSM let me know when you do this because i want to watch while the CSM First verbally rips into you for your classic try to not render a Salute. Then as part of your retrain has you stand in front of post HQ with your little book in one hand and the Mug in the other.
Just how big of a binder was this and how big is the mug?, Where were you going and why did you need the binder and the Mug? Was the binder a Copy of AR 600-25 so you could back up your dumb plan that has been tried by maybe a Million Soldiers and they keep getting caught and retrained.
Cradle the binder in the palm of your left hand and hold your Mug with the fingers of your left hand(1 finger through the handle and your thumb on the rim works the best. Then when you get the time look at all the AR's again and find some thing original to try and get your bragging rights. This is beneath you and typical e-4 mafia stunt. JMT
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Suspended Profile
You don't drop anything to salute hence the regulations allowing a verbal. Your CSM needs to worry about bigger better things. Stupid shit like that is a reminder of why I got out when I miss active duty.
Contrary to popular opinion, CSMs are not quite infallible. However, telling them so is definitely a mortal sin. Grin and bear it. I suspect there was some underlying and undisclosed motive. Either the CSM was looking for an excuse to chew on you, or he was trying too hard to impress the Captain and probably failed. If it happened again, I would assume that it was personal and call him out on what the reg actually says...respectfully, but in a clear voice loud enough for the Captain to hear.
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CPT William Jones
The Sm said this was his second time so one has to assume he received the way the local command interpreted the regulation so he didnt need to do that only follow local interpritations as explained to him. No looking for an excuse to chew on him. I found that if i wanted to chew on soldiers it was not hard to find them doing something wrong. If that was what an NCO or officer wnts to do just watch the next three SM junior to you you see and ill bet you can find at least two of them that you need to correct about something against the rules and customs. I also believe with the information presented by the SM the CSM was correct in his correcting the Sm.
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CPT William Jones
First sighting of the day in garrison is expected but not demanded not ever expected in field but officers that out rank me depends on unit policy. Follow my example as I am responsible for my driver
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Drink your coffee at the office and render the salute. No excuses Sgt set the example and stop trying to make an excuse for not doing what you are supposed to be doing from the get go. Army Strong
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