Posted on Dec 14, 2020
Do I need to render a salute to an officer when my hands are occupied?
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This is the second time I’ve gotten reprimanded for this situation. I was walking with a binder in my hands, and a mug in the other hand. I walked past a CSM and a CPT, greeted both as I was unable to salute. CSM stopped me and demanded that I drop everything to salute the CPT. AR 600-25 states that I am not required to render a salute if I am carrying articles with both hands. What is the right answer?
Customs and Courtesies
Saluting
Officers
Enlisted
Posted 5 y ago
Responses: 633
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This happened to me, I had stuff in my hands,saw a Captain coming and tried to put it all in my left side, she just smiled and Saulted me.
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You’re suppose to carry most things in your left hand unless otherwise occupied. Your CSM was definitely wrong
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The CSM was wrong. You recite AR 600-25 to him,if he continues to insist on being wrong, you do as he says, then you inform your CSM of the situation. If it was your CSM that was wrong you report it to your BDE/DIV/CORPS CSM.
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I assisted my Squadron to move from one Hanger to another. While most of us Enlisted were hauling crate after crate to the trucks, we had a junior LT that kept holding the door for us and giving us crap each time we went out for not saluting. He was joking, but on our second load, we pulled the truck into the hanger. The LT applauded the solution.
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Really! You're a Sergeant! For God's Sake! Your action and excuse are just pure laziness and lame, tuck the binder under your left arm and place the coffee (you shouldn't be carrying outdoors) into your left hand and render the Salute! Just how difficult is that? Do you require a block of instructions to carry out that task? You are in Intelligence act like you have some! Maybe you shouldn't be trying to read between the lines of Regulations to find loopholes to keep you from performing your duties in a required manner, I can tell you right now, there isn't any! I was in the infantry for many years, even a private in the infantry knows how to honor a Salute even if their hands were full. This question, in this forum, is an embarrassment to all of us NCOs grow up and start acting like one!
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SSG Douglas Shaffer
I am old Army. My rank and time have no bearing as to the idiot question of one just being too damn lazy to perform their duty in a professional manner. The only thing you need to know is, I was a Professional Soldier and a Professional NCO. Which clearly you are not! For if you were, you wouldn't be trying to call me out to try and put me down and degrade me over my rank and service time while making a correction of a peer. Professionals wouldn't do that. Nor would a good NCO. So, move out smartly and ask some old retired CSM what it meant for one to be a Professional Soldier.
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MSgt Earl King
I'm a Marine[retired] I've done more time on the shitter than you have in service playing John Wayne, you aren't old Army to me you are a boot, I retired in 1987 and little wannabe's like you don't have a clue, you haven't earned the right to call any person who has served an Idiot, what does many years mean, I served 27 in my Marine Corp, my brother did 30. You know nothing about saluting, if you were in a war zone and saluted an officer he would give you a good old butt chewing, while ripping your head off. In the infantry for many years, you are a legend in your own mind!
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SSG Douglas Shaffer
I see the truth of my statement about your professionalism hurts, My Grandfather earned the title of "Devil Dog" in Belleau Wood, that you get to the privilege of flash around. My Father was a career Marine who served in Vietnam up on the DNZ region and was there for the Tet Offensive and retired long before you did. So, don't go barking up that tree about Marines, real Marine have a long and great history about them and their Professionalism to which the Professionalism part you may have forgotten. Who the hell said anything about Saluting in a War Zone? You are only stating such a situation in the defense of your position of being wrong, for your actions of try to belittle someone that doesn't mean your weak standard of a soldier with no knowledge of one's background and to my approach to the corrective action I would have taken, any first year private knows not to salute in a war zone. Plus, OP did not imply or say anything about being in a warzone however, it did imply they were not in a warzone for if so CSM would not have stopped and forced that lazy Sgt to Salute the accompanying Officer. I take it that reading comprehension is not your strong suit. When you can say you worked with ATF, DEA, DOE, FBI, Navy Seals, Force Marine Recon, Rangers, Special Forces all in the progression of of advancing their Sniper training, then say something really worth listening too. I served 22 years Active and Retired as well, you don't stay in the Active Army that long as a Sgt unless you really know some things and have specialized training, I enjoyed being a Sgt it kept me in the Sh*t. Oh, did I mentioned about talking to Carlos Hathcock on several occasions, He was a really great man and funny too. So don't go talking about being a wannabe when there those who actually do and then there are those who are just Canopy Washer.
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AR is always right ,you can't take away from regs .it happened to me a few times, as a courtesy i would acknowledge the officer ,by greeting of the day .
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It depends on what you're doing. In your case, If you could combine the two items in your left hand, that would be best , or failing that, set one down and salute. If you were in a work party, or obviously occupied, you'd be excused. A good rule of thumb,"Unless you CANT, you SHOULD. MOST seniors appreciate that extra moment you take to "render honors" . Look at it as a military way of saying HELLO!!
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Theoretically, in the days just after the Earth had cooled but before dinosaurs walked the Earth, one exercised common sense and never encoumbered themselves with a double armful of junk. Ever wonder why there were all those bag people at the Commissary that would take your groceries out to the car? It was so you were never encombered so much that you couldn't salute someone of a higher rank. You can always bring a small "wheele" case to work and load all your stuff in that and pull it with your left hand and voila, you have a saluting hand free. As a SGT, you could detail a private or corporal to help you if this becomes a problem and if you are the senior member, you can salute for both of you or all three. Most officers recognize that you may be encoumbered and your verbal greeting or a nod or such will suffice for them and you both continue on. Then there are the few dogmatists that will insist on being saluted no matter what. Unfortunately the salute recognizes the rank and not the individual, the job he is doing, or the character of the individual. I believe there is a codicel to saluting which may be invoked but you would have to look at an AFM prior to using it. In the Air Force, we were not allowed to salute on the flight line as it compromised safety and detracted from the diligance of knowing where aircraft and vehicles were. You didn't wear any cover either as it could blow off and become aircraft engine FOD which could render an aircraft NMR. The other was saluting indicated to a potential enemy who the commanding officer was in your group. In order to protect him, you did not salute. One might want to envoke an aire of "Train the way you fight", and employ a verbal greeting as opposed to saluting which could be detrimental in a combat zone as well as an EEFI that could be used in a force status report (classified document).
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For one, you could have move your binder to your left hand under your arm pit and carry the mug on your left hand. 2) avoid brass like a plague 3)become an officer and see how you like it. 4)why is saluting so hard?
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