Posted on Dec 14, 2020
Do I need to render a salute to an officer when my hands are occupied?
211K
3.33K
1.12K
338
336
2
This is the second time I’ve gotten reprimanded for this situation. I was walking with a binder in my hands, and a mug in the other hand. I walked past a CSM and a CPT, greeted both as I was unable to salute. CSM stopped me and demanded that I drop everything to salute the CPT. AR 600-25 states that I am not required to render a salute if I am carrying articles with both hands. What is the right answer?
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 634
During 1962-65 I served aboard a submarine homeported at the DesSub Piers at Navsta Norva.
Some of the very junior enlisted tincan sailors made a game of avoiding saluting submarine officers by suddenly becoming very busy with tucking in the tails of their dungaree shirts with their right hands when they saw the approach of a submarine officer on a sidewalk.
Usually I ignored that ploy and carried on with my own life.
One time, though, I stopped the hotshot seaman on the waterfront and told him that I expected a salute.
He replied, "You'll need to wait a minute,"
and I responded, "I'll wait."
He finished tucking in his shirt and then saluted.
So I returned his salute and said, "Thank you; carry on."
Then he carried on, and so did I.
Some of the very junior enlisted tincan sailors made a game of avoiding saluting submarine officers by suddenly becoming very busy with tucking in the tails of their dungaree shirts with their right hands when they saw the approach of a submarine officer on a sidewalk.
Usually I ignored that ploy and carried on with my own life.
One time, though, I stopped the hotshot seaman on the waterfront and told him that I expected a salute.
He replied, "You'll need to wait a minute,"
and I responded, "I'll wait."
He finished tucking in his shirt and then saluted.
So I returned his salute and said, "Thank you; carry on."
Then he carried on, and so did I.
(0)
(0)
You are walking past the two with both hands occupied. Always try to keep your right hand vacant but in this case that wasn't practical. A verbal acknowledgement as you pass is appropriate.
(0)
(0)
Bear in mind this is the Marine in me answering. It would depend on what I am carrying. If I am a Pall Bearer with a Casket, they can bite me. A binder and a mug are easy to set down carefully and render a Salute. All of that in mind, I may also consider if I know the Gentlemen. If not, give the consideration. If I do know them, acknowledge them and see if they offer to skip it as your hands are occupied. Do not assume it is o.k. and a CSM will always want the respect owed to be paid.
(0)
(0)
Trigger warnibg: I was active duty USMC in the 80s.
When not participating in drill, the right hand was to be kept available for saluting.
Beverages were not to be transported from building to building, especially open containers.
If an item to be transported would take both hands, a second SNM (preferably higher rank) would accompany the bearer in order to render any necessary honors.
Officers were told not to approach working parties unless they wished to participate.
Senior SNCOs, while accompanying officers, kept in mind that while the officers were in charge, without the enlisted nothing would get done. Attitudes were kept in check and officers were trained accordingly.
When not participating in drill, the right hand was to be kept available for saluting.
Beverages were not to be transported from building to building, especially open containers.
If an item to be transported would take both hands, a second SNM (preferably higher rank) would accompany the bearer in order to render any necessary honors.
Officers were told not to approach working parties unless they wished to participate.
Senior SNCOs, while accompanying officers, kept in mind that while the officers were in charge, without the enlisted nothing would get done. Attitudes were kept in check and officers were trained accordingly.
(0)
(0)
I retired in 1983, so I’m looking at this from way back when. If you have something in your right hand, you cannot salute. Why do you have something in your right hand? Would you, should you, what a responsible person in your situation remove the thing from your right hand so you could render a proper salute.
In my opinion. If your right hand is busy trying to prevent somebody from bleeding to death, don’t salute. If your right hand is holding a cup of coffee, get rid of the coffee and salute properly.
The salute the basic foundations of the military. Like any secret handshake in any club, it’s very important, but not the beginning and end all of everything. Common sense on both sides should prevail. Not knowing all the details. It looks to me like you went out of the way to try and be unable to salute. That was disrespectful to yourself, your unit, and the military in general.
In my opinion. If your right hand is busy trying to prevent somebody from bleeding to death, don’t salute. If your right hand is holding a cup of coffee, get rid of the coffee and salute properly.
The salute the basic foundations of the military. Like any secret handshake in any club, it’s very important, but not the beginning and end all of everything. Common sense on both sides should prevail. Not knowing all the details. It looks to me like you went out of the way to try and be unable to salute. That was disrespectful to yourself, your unit, and the military in general.
(0)
(0)
If you are on duty and both hands are full, especially where safety or the pursuit of your duty is involved, you are not required to salute (and officers are not required to return a salute).
But I'm also not giving legal advice, if you need legal advice, consult an attorney.
But I'm also not giving legal advice, if you need legal advice, consult an attorney.
(0)
(0)
Coffee cup? No wonder the CSM chewed your ass out. You're so in love with your coffee cup that you couldn't put the binder under your arm and the coffee cup in the same hand? SMH.......
(0)
(0)
You had a binder in one hand and coffee cup the other and you didn’t think shift your load to free your hand for salute. The CSM was, in my opinion, correct
(0)
(0)
While you were technically not wrong in being corrected, the second part of the reg stats “if not practical….” I would very often tell young soldier that I saw coming struggling with this same scenario not to worry, I appreciated the consideration, but would prefer they maintain their military bearing.
To me the effort to try to do the right thing was enough. What bothered me more was the total lack of discipline from the very new soldiers when I was around tradoc that bothered me more. And the complacency the Nico core had towards it.
Keep trying to do the right thing, if possible to render customs, do so. Hopefully you have good leadership in your units that see your dilemma and can do something similar to my COA.
To me the effort to try to do the right thing was enough. What bothered me more was the total lack of discipline from the very new soldiers when I was around tradoc that bothered me more. And the complacency the Nico core had towards it.
Keep trying to do the right thing, if possible to render customs, do so. Hopefully you have good leadership in your units that see your dilemma and can do something similar to my COA.
(0)
(0)
The answer if you can render a hand salute. You simply acknowledge the officer and say at your liesure Sir or Maam.
(0)
(0)
You have a binder in one hand and a coffee cup in the other. Move them both to the same hand, cradling the binder in your elbow. Then salute. How difficult is that to figure out?
(0)
(0)
If you SHOULD be carrying a beverage, use a tumbler with a top to avoid spillage. Tuck binder under left arm and salute. Pull out handkerchief you carry for first aid purposes and offer to CSM silently (No, don't do this last one, really).
(0)
(0)
There is literal interpretation, and there is intent. For example, the intent of that guidance was for someone carrying awkward, or heavy, or two-handed objects. Someone who carries around a coffee cup and a binder, in my opinion, is trying to stretch that interpretation to avoid saluting. I'm sure things are much less stringent these days, but if it is reasonable to transfer objects to your left hand for the purpose of rendering a salute, then you are expected to do so. That is what the CSM is looking at. However, there are a lot of officers (above 2LT anyway) who are equally annoyed with saluting during day-to-day activities. I'm just saying, especially if the CSM is there, I wouldn't push it with this weak example of "hands full".
(0)
(0)
As long as you acknowledge them with the greeting of the day and Sir or Ma’am any Officer should be ok with that. Maybe a simple apology for not being able to salute if you feel the need.
Know the regulation quote it respectfully and fully.
Any Officer or NCO who honestly has issue with that has their own issues.
Know the regulation quote it respectfully and fully.
Any Officer or NCO who honestly has issue with that has their own issues.
(0)
(0)
Call an Uber. Stay inside until your Uber arrives and make a run for it as the Captain and the CSM approach. Lie and tell them the Colonel needs his coffee and his binder as your Uber speeds away.
Another way of handling this situation is switch shirts with someone before you go outside. That way the name on your shirt gets the reprimand while you go free.
Another way of handling this situation is switch shirts with someone before you go outside. That way the name on your shirt gets the reprimand while you go free.
(0)
(0)
No you don't have to salute give the CPT a greeting and continue on your way if the CSM is not happy with that go to JAG and fight any type of UCMJ action.
(0)
(0)
Read This Next