Posted on Sep 30, 2018
Do modern day soldiers always carry the 100 to 120 lbs of stuff - P-vest, weapons, ammo, radios, ruck, extra ammo into the fight?
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One of the things we did during my tenure (early 70s to early 90s) was we would cache, under security, our rucks before moving to a recon area, ambush site or attack objective. We carried on our bodys only our fighting gear to the fight. Total weight was between 30 and 40 pounds.
We had the old flak jackets but they were something we wore in the vehicles. The majority of the Scout Sgts I knew left them in the rear - we didn't ever wear steelpots or flak jackets on patrols, because we would break contact if compromised.
Do you not do that now? If not maybe a re-look at that technique.
We had the old flak jackets but they were something we wore in the vehicles. The majority of the Scout Sgts I knew left them in the rear - we didn't ever wear steelpots or flak jackets on patrols, because we would break contact if compromised.
Do you not do that now? If not maybe a re-look at that technique.
Military History
Combat
Infantryman
Scout
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 12
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And try telling the VA that there really is a service incurred injury when your knees and back are in constant pain years later...
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Carrying a lot of water these days, at least in Afghanistan. That's a good 30 lbs right there.
That and IOTV, ammo, batteries... adds up in a hurry.
That and IOTV, ammo, batteries... adds up in a hurry.
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SGT Stan Setliff
Mid '80's mortar crew we were often closer to 150 lbs. with mortar rounds, radios and batteries. Led to 1 individual with an abdominal muscle tear, 1 with a hernia, and my screwed up back. Trainning and operational list weren't always examined from a weight aspect. Line dogz could drop most of their weight, but our gear went with us. Transition from 81's to 60mm's, they were smaller, so you could carry more. Right? Over weight rucks led to hard airborne landings. No whine intended, guys.
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SFC Ralph E Kelley
SGT Stan Setliff - In Korea, we did the 'Warrior Walks' using TO&E equipment. Personal Weapons, Crew-served and Squad. I set up our, M16 rifles, LBE, basic load of 5.56, granades, claymores (1 per man) and rucks (with all CO required winter soldier gear).
THEN behind it I had the Crew-served weapons (1 per vehicle - mine was a M113) with our MA-Deuce and it's Spare Barrel, Spare-barrel Kit,, Tripod, TO&E Mechanism, and 800 rounds of 50cal Ball.
THEN started laying out the Squad Equipment of NVGs, Starlights Scope (includng the MA-Deuece's), 72 hours C-rats ... Well at that point the CO asked my 2LT (he and Top were in on it) what he thought HIS portion of the gear he could carry?
The 2LT got the message and stopped us.
Good Times!
THEN behind it I had the Crew-served weapons (1 per vehicle - mine was a M113) with our MA-Deuce and it's Spare Barrel, Spare-barrel Kit,, Tripod, TO&E Mechanism, and 800 rounds of 50cal Ball.
THEN started laying out the Squad Equipment of NVGs, Starlights Scope (includng the MA-Deuece's), 72 hours C-rats ... Well at that point the CO asked my 2LT (he and Top were in on it) what he thought HIS portion of the gear he could carry?
The 2LT got the message and stopped us.
Good Times!
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SGT Stan Setliff
SFC Ralph E Kelley We were on a trainning cycle in Panama at the Jungle Warfare Center 82nd. Jump was bad enough. I got a machette from one of the guys and started cuttin a road. CO showed up wanting to know what all the noise was, and got an ear full. Long story short, they slowed down.
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SFC Ralph E Kelley
SGT Stan Setliff - Gatun DZ. or as we called "The Land of Reeds". When we Scouts were told to 'clear it' one time - it being Dry Season - we burned it off about 3 days prior. Nice and clear with just a lit' bit of muck under the char. Everyone landing got to their feet with uniforms, gear and skin soot-black as a new moon ninga.
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Very well said, same here during the early 70's, even more lite with the LRRP or out on OP.
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That makes sense, also answers one question about women in combat. What about risk of being separated from your full ruck?
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SFC Ralph E Kelley
Our normal movement distance from the cache site (unless it was a pre-planned cache for later ops) was about 300 to 500 meters (roughly one terrain feature in most terrain.
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MCPO Roger Collins
SFC Ralph E Kelley Seems like a fair distance in a combat situation. If you ground pounders have this worked out, this sailor wouldn’t dispute it. Mostly curiosity on my part.
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SFC Ralph E Kelley
MCPO Roger Collins - Understood, I was in Cavalry as an Armored Scout and in Infantry Battalions Recon Platoons, so I saw both the mounted and dismounted issues. Either was the soldiers or the vehicles were overloaded.
I exercised my own judgment and often ordered things taken or left behind based on my assessment of the situation.
I exercised my own judgment and often ordered things taken or left behind based on my assessment of the situation.
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SFC Ralph E Kelley
Sorry for the short answer earlier. I had to run. I definitely found crossing between forces undetected as my most difficult task. Too much and ouch! Too little and the same.
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I have carried more than my share of 100+ lb rucks however caches were just part of business.
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SFC Ralph E Kelley
Same here.
We used to pre-position caches in our AO, do poncho drops and supply link-ups too.
We used to pre-position caches in our AO, do poncho drops and supply link-ups too.
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LTC Jeff Shearer
now if we had a mission to get in and get out i.e. helicopter we might have a small mission pack. But even then we always had a little bit of contingency stuff, you never know.
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SFC Ralph E Kelley
LTC Jeff Shearer - When we used Choppers we were out for the long-haul. False insertions, hop, and runn 300 meters to the 12 o'clock RP. Count heads, and move to the secondary RP if anyone was missing (sometime it happened - usually a buddy team) and to our first RP in not. Main thing was to clear the LZ.
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My first deployment to Iraq (2003), we did a lot of foot patrols in Baghdad. The squad's M113 was left at the building we occupied, and we never carried a pack. Body armor & helmet, weapon, basic ammo load, water, and any extra sensitive items & extra batteries. I don't think we even had a manpac radio.
Second time around was route clearance patrols with half the Platoon at a time. When we went on cache searches or in pursuit of insurgents, one (maybe two) people carried a manpac radio (one of the smaller ASIPs), and everything else stayed in the vehicles. Other than that, no packs.
This may be an apples-to-oranges comparison, though, as I never did a multi-day operation on foot; everything was based from vehicles at worst.
Second time around was route clearance patrols with half the Platoon at a time. When we went on cache searches or in pursuit of insurgents, one (maybe two) people carried a manpac radio (one of the smaller ASIPs), and everything else stayed in the vehicles. Other than that, no packs.
This may be an apples-to-oranges comparison, though, as I never did a multi-day operation on foot; everything was based from vehicles at worst.
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SFC Ralph E Kelley
Again sorry for the short answer earlier. I had to run and pick up things. My life when deployed was always multi-day actions. The day-to-day grinds wore soldiers down. Zombies after 5 days.
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SGT Matthew S.
I think that's pretty well universal - and I'm one of the ones that gets to the zombie state around the fourth day.
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Don’t really know what the youngsters hump today (more than we did back in Vietnam in the Sixties) but my unit had two and variations of them,one was the company movement upon leaving the LZ full rucks until operational objectives met,movement along our AOs ,company perimeter to company perimeter full rucks,patrolling from company perimeter weapons,ammo, water,C rats for one day rucks left with stay back platoon.
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SFC Ralph E Kelley
Sorry for the short answer earlier. I had to run so I could get some stuff.
I found that the situation dictated what I had my soldier haul around. I also found that further we were from the flagpole the more choices I had available.
You?
I found that the situation dictated what I had my soldier haul around. I also found that further we were from the flagpole the more choices I had available.
You?
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SGT Philip Roncari
SFC Ralph E Kelley- As the youngsters say,no prob,my Battalion 3/8 Inf 4th Div mission was to meet and greet the NVA in the Central Highlands 1966-67 most of our operations were chopper inserted two company sweeps with the third held in fire base reserve,rucksacks were carried to and from company perimeters, day patrolling,ambushes and sweeps only carried Basic loads and whatever the powers that be dictated ,am I making any sense? remember you are conversing with a seventy three year old! Be well Brother .
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I didn't do a single mission carrying a full rucksack. If I did bring my full ruck, it was for when I needed lots of extra stuff. Extra ammo, more water (even though the truck had about 10 gallons of it) MREs, sleeping gear if the mission was more than a day. And the ruck stayed in the truck.
More often than not I carried an assault bag, either the issued one or the one I owned. All based on mission parameters. Sometimes it would stay in the truck, sometimes I would carry it. Again all based on mission parameters. I kept the essential gear on my plate carrier such as ammo, 3L of water (at least), first aid kit, night vision, M9. Had at least 1 set of extra batteries for everything electronic. My lightweight patrol setup was about 60 pounds with no pack.
More often than not I carried an assault bag, either the issued one or the one I owned. All based on mission parameters. Sometimes it would stay in the truck, sometimes I would carry it. Again all based on mission parameters. I kept the essential gear on my plate carrier such as ammo, 3L of water (at least), first aid kit, night vision, M9. Had at least 1 set of extra batteries for everything electronic. My lightweight patrol setup was about 60 pounds with no pack.
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SPC Casey Ashfield
SFC Ralph E Kelley - The sad part is, in a modern guerilla type battlefield every movement can turn into a movement to contact. Every mission brief had a TIC percentage. That was the likelihood we would be "troops in contact." If the percentage was higher I normally packed more ammo and less of something else such as whole MREs.
Any mission is wildly unpredictable. I recall one mission where we had a meeting with village elders at a school. TIC was 90%. We setup an overwatch platoon for the meeting the night before and they stayed in place. I had around 400 rounds of 5.56 and almost 100 rounds of 9mm. Nothing happened. Meeting went off perfectly.
Any mission is wildly unpredictable. I recall one mission where we had a meeting with village elders at a school. TIC was 90%. We setup an overwatch platoon for the meeting the night before and they stayed in place. I had around 400 rounds of 5.56 and almost 100 rounds of 9mm. Nothing happened. Meeting went off perfectly.
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SFC Ralph E Kelley
Sorry for the short answer earlier. Things were happening and I had to pause. We carried LBE but ours had two extra ammo pouches (4) and canteen (2) + a 2 Qt. We also carried an can of 7.62 and a spare radio (PRC-77) battery. Basically if we could shoot, drink, electrify or eat it - it didn't go on foot. Starlights were nice but heavy and I was real happy when the first NVGs (PVS5s) hit the field.
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