Posted on Jun 8, 2014
Sgt AN/TRC-170 Technician
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I have heard many past service members saying that the tri colors was the best thing that had ever happened. Being a Marine I like the MARPAT design and would love to continue using it, but what do you think?
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MAJ Commander
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Edited 11 y ago
Too easy: Design a common camouflage pattern for all services based on the terrain type. Designate the services by the left name tape. If Army, Marines, Navy and Air Force go to the same combat environment they should be able to blend with that combat environment. If you are assigned to Malaysia you get Military pattern X. If you get assigned to Afghanistan you get military pattern Y.

Camouflage is about hiding the individual, not about branding the service.
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Sgt AN/TRC-170 Technician
Sgt (Join to see)
11 y
Definitely agree with your last sentence sir! If i may ask sir, which pattern would you choose if you had the final say?
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MAJ Commander
MAJ (Join to see)
11 y
I would go with whatever makes the Soldier look like the waiting room of the VA because that is what seems to make him invisible.
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MAJ Commander
MAJ (Join to see)
11 y
Oh by the way, the Marine pattern works very well in Afghanistan as opposed to the glow in the dark ACU pattern. The Multicam is VERY effective in the woodlands of Europe. I led a LRS training team to Latvia and we absolutely disappeared into the environment with the multicam. This ability should not be service specific.
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Sgt AN/TRC-170 Technician
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Which I found absolutely horrible and disrespectful in-light of that VA revelation sir. I just could not believe what I was seeing and reading.
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PO1 William "Chip" Nagel
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What the hell does a Sailor at sea need camo for? I liked my old Blue Jean Dungarees. If I wanted to wear Camo in the Navy I would have been a Seabee.
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PO1 Jonathon Oakley
PO1 Jonathon Oakley
11 y
You got my vote. Nothing like a man overboard in sea blue camo.
Maybe if you could turn it inside out for blaze orange
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Sgt National Military Recruiting Program Manager
Sgt (Join to see)
11 y
I never really understood why sailors on a ship were wearing BLUE anyway (camo or dungarees). You aren't in need of blending in to anything on a grey colored ship. And if you fall in the water, you don't want to be invisible.
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LTC Paul Labrador
LTC Paul Labrador
11 y
The blue was to hide dirt and grease stains.
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PO1 Carol Nines
PO1 Carol Nines
11 y
When I joined in 86 we had Dungarees,  liked them a lot.  The new uniforms look okay but  Dungarees are more comfortable.  I liked the coveralls for on the ship.
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CPT Public Affairs Officer
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We need to revert back to one pattern across all services with terrain-specific variants. Just like BDUs. The Marines and the Navy seem to be the only ones getting that one pattern does not fit all.
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Do you believe our military should use the same camouflage pattern or should each branch continue using their own?
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LTC Paul Labrador
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One pattern. I don't care which as long as it's effective. If you want to feel special or have service pride, that is what dress uniforms are for. Downrange, we need a uniform that is effective AND immediately tells people that you are on their side (ie "you are dressed like me, ergo I will not shoot you"). The added benefit of it being cheaper for our nation, is an added benefit.
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Sgt AN/TRC-170 Technician
Sgt (Join to see)
11 y
Which pattern do you believe is more effective sir, between all the patterns in our military?
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LTC Paul Labrador
LTC Paul Labrador
11 y
Multi-cam. It IS as close to a universal pattern as you are going to get. When units who have the discretion to choose what to wear (ie the SOCOM types), which pattern do they invariably pick? They pick multi-cam.
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SFC Intelligence Analyst   Atl
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I would say to pick an existing pattern so that we as a nation can save some $ instead of going through the whole development process to select a new uniform. With our overseas missions taking on a more joint/multi-national role, we need to be able to stand as one and apart from the rest. I feel that the Class A or other dress uniforms should serve to set us apart as individual services. After all, it the Marine Corps Blues that people think of over their various camo patterned uniforms.
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Sgt Seth Busse
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I happen to think the way congress does on this, shoot me I know, why did the MARPAT design cost the least to develop but is the most effective?
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SrA Plane Captain
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11 y
the Marines know how to make all things work with the smallest amount of money. Amazing.
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Sgt National Military Recruiting Program Manager
Sgt (Join to see)
11 y
I don't think there is REALISTICALLY a way to get around 2+ different camo patterns. Multi-cam is pretty good, but still not as good as MARPAT woodland when you are in triple canopy jungle...or, conversely, the dirt of Afghanistan in Desert MARPAT.

On the flip side of that, how often will we be fighting in triple canopy jungle? Or in an open field of dirt/sand?

The Marine Corps, unlike the Army's ACU, didn't allow politics and bureaucracy to design it's pattern. The stuff worked the way it worked, didn't require years of making someone's friend rich in "testing it out" and was quickly adopted.
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SFC Douglas Eshenbaugh
SFC Douglas Eshenbaugh
11 y
Sgt Disher,

I ask you this, if the Marine Corps didn't play politics why did they design the MARPAT with globe and anchor in the pattern, effectively preventing any other branch from using it.

I remember when the MARPAT came out and the stink that was raised because the Marines wouldn't allow the other branches to use their new uniform they had developed.

All the branches play politics at that level.
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Sgt Seth Busse
Sgt Seth Busse
11 y
There is a MARPAT pattern without the Eagle Globe and Anchor. They are not authorized for Marines to wear but the MCX carries them. They were for Navy Corpsman, RPs, Chaplains, and "Devil Pups". On more than one occasion I had caught marines out of uniform during inspections because they bought this "off" pattern.
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SSgt Gregory Moore
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All services should switch to the current Marine pattern. One BDU is far more cost-effective. Branch insignia is more than adequate to differentiate the uniforms. It's just common sense, which means the Defense Dept will probably reject the idea.
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SFC Scott O.
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The current ACU pattern is horrible, the absolute worst thing to ever happen. We can't hide in any environment unless it's that couch that I am sure everyone has seen a picture of.
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CPT Jacob Swartout
CPT Jacob Swartout
11 y
Or the gravel road that was mentioned the other day by one of the cadre members in my unit. I remember the couch picture too well because it actually did blend in perfectly.
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Maj Weather
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Even the CBO and RAND Corp said the Marines did this best. We should go their direction. Too bad they hold onto their pattern like a fat kid on a candy bar.
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LCpl Charles Ross
LCpl Charles Ross
11 y
AND???????
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CPT Jacob Swartout
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I like how each branch has their own. I know congress wants to adopt one pattern for all services and save on budget too which makes clear sense in some aspects. Honestly it doesn't matter much to me as long as the pattern works well in different environments we may encounter.
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Sgt AN/TRC-170 Technician
Sgt (Join to see)
11 y
Very well put sir! Thank you for the response.
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CPT Jacob Swartout
CPT Jacob Swartout
11 y
You are welcome PFC Hernandez
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SSG(P) Auston Terry
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MARPAT should never have been restricted to one branch in the first place. Branch specific combat uniforms are a mistake. It's my personal opinon that personell that don't actively enagage in manual tasks should wear a uniform more in line with what the Army calls Class B's but more towards what the USMC calls Service C's at least in part to encourage a sense of service identity without the branches feeling the need to have a branded combat/utility uniform especially in joint settings. Are those uniforms a total pain in the ass? Absolutely, they also build character, attention to detail, pride, and ownership; which is the foundation of discipline.

In regards to utility uniforms, off the shelf across most terrain spectrums the two CADPAT/MARPATs seem to be the best available choice, especially since there seems to be a serious color fastening issue with OCP. I'd really like to see a return to the four pocket front coat; with molle sewn onto basically every flat surface on your OCIE and the combat shirt which is actually designed to wear under body army instead of half assing it with the current coat. The fit and utility of the four pocket front in soft sided field conditions was excellent.
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MSG Martin C.
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I would say yes DOD needs to stop the madness. We should all take the punch in the gut and say USMC you were correct all along we were wrong......
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SSG(P) Auston Terry
SSG(P) Auston Terry
11 y
I think you meant to say the USMC was incorrect, The Marines lobbied to ensure no other service would utilize thier uniforms (except Corpsman of course). Desert MARPAT has consistantly tested at Natick above multicam in several environments. It's very likely that the Army would have simply adopted the MARPAT uniforms in the early 2000's if the USMC had not ensured they could not.
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Sgt National Military Recruiting Program Manager
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I certainly think there is value in allowing the enemy to identify (or fear) the opposing force that they are fighting. Every military unit has done this throughout history. We don't fly colors in battle anymore, so we have to identify somehow.

HOWEVER, I don't think that every branch required their own camouflage...or camouflage at all (USAF and Navy). Aside from those who would be operating in such conditions, i.e. Navy Corpsman or Air Force Controller...etc. But to design, develop and equip all of that specialized camo for a majority of the military who will never go outside the wire, was ridiculous.
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Sgt Matthew O'Donnell
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USMC does have the best looking uniforms
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SFC Network Engineer
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In the 1980's, the military went to a single camoflage pattern for all branches - known as BDUs (Battle Dress Uniform) and it had the Woodland pattern.

Every branch was required to wear it for field or deployment operations.

The reason for this was 1st) We thought we were going to fight the final war against the USSR in the late 80's. The plan was that this battle would be so fierce, and so destructive, that people would get separated from their units, and wind up with other units, branches, or even other NATO allied countries forces.

If a Soldier was separated from his parent unit, he could go to that unit supply, and get new uniforms in the same pattern he's currently wearing.

Since then, that didn't happen, and we fought two wars in the deserts of Iraq, and one in Afghanistan. Woodland patterns weren't going to cut it there, so branches decided to design their own patterns that in theory allowed them to "hide" better in the terrain they expected to operate in.

Ultimately, I think that each branch should continue to develop their own patterns. I think SOF should go further and have their own gear and patterns too.
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MSG(P) Michael Warrick
MSG(P) Michael Warrick
11 y
For cost saving I believe we should just have one uniform. I just want the Army to stop changing uniforms all the time.
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SrA Plane Captain
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At the end of the day, Congress voted in October that the US Military has to adopt just one camouflage uniform and it had to be enforced by 2018.
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SrA Plane Captain
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Will it save the military money? Will we become more efficient if we had one uniform? And the answer is? NO. I can say it is motivating that each branch has its own camouflage. When I see all my fellow Air Men in ABU's I get excited. When I see other branches in camouflage I want to work harder and be harder to show how the Air Force does things.
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LTC Paul Labrador
LTC Paul Labrador
11 y
It absolutely would save the military money. Purchasing uniforms in different patterns costs money. The bigger issue is that purching GEAR in different patterns costs even MORE money. And the logistics of having to maintain seperate pipelines for each different uniform pattern is expensive as well. Merging those pipelines into a single one also makes logistics more efficient, particularly downrange.
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Sgt Apprentice Security Policeman
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we all do the same job so yes one pattern for one country.
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MSgt Command Equipment Manager
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I know right now the Air Force has stated that all Airmen deployed will go to the OCP multicam like the Army. I actually prefer those over the ABUs any day.
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Sgt AN/TRC-170 Technician
Sgt (Join to see)
11 y
For what reason(s) if I may ask?
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MSgt Command Equipment Manager
MSgt (Join to see)
11 y
They are comfortable. Less bulky. Lighter weight. The only problem is how fast they fade in the sun though compared to the ABU, but I can get over that compared to the other pros.
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CPT Senior Instructor
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I think the Army is following the Marines with this situation. The army is developing a family of camo patterns that will be used for uniforms. I understand that they will use the same pattern with three color variations. I think it is a bit funny how some completely disagree with one pattern for all branches. I have been in the military a while and I had BDUs as did every other branch in the military. It was that way for a while. The style of the uniform for the Marines were different, i.e. hat and the EDA in the pattern, but it was all the same for everyone.
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Sgt AN/TRC-170 Technician
Sgt (Join to see)
11 y
If you had the overall say on what the universal patter should be, which would you choose sir?
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