Posted on Oct 23, 2014
SFC Mark Merino
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Secondary ptsd
Not contagious in the literal sense, but rather secondary PTS. They have been doing a much better job teaching us to identify the signs and symptoms of PTS in the military, but in my opinion they do not explain the effect that PTS has on our loved ones.

Symptom example: Startle response.

You are doing everything in your power to keep noise to a minimum so you don't find yourself clinging to the ceiling. Suddenly, the kids accidentally drop something and BOOM! That demon rises up and takes control. Even though you calm down and apologize, you plant that seed in those around you. Before long, even if you manage not to react, the kids may. They flinch and panic because they expect your reaction. We have now conditioned others to feel what we feel.

So many arguments happen in the family because of the lack of understanding that our symptoms can effect our loved ones. Don't waste your time pointing fingers. YOU might be Rambo and think you can deal with it on your own. Your family may not have that same iron constitution. If you don't want to get help for yourself, get help for their sake. One Team One Fight applies to family even more than the branch you faithfully serve.

This is an example from my life before I got help from the VA. Please share your opinions for the benefit of the community. God bless. Uncle Mark
Posted in these groups: Perform to serve navy career wise training presentation transcript 34614 PTS
Edited >1 y ago
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Responses: 65
MSgt Electrical Power Production
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All I can say is don't be afraid to seek help. Help is available.
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CMSgt James Nolan
CMSgt James Nolan
>1 y
SPC(P) Jay Heenan You are 100% correct. Was absolutely not.
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MSgt Electrical Power Production
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I meant no disrespect to anyone but stand my my original statement. There are other avenues then the VA to seek help. CMSgt James Nolan I did understand where you where going but understand how it could have been misconstrued. Sgt Ray Britt I am sorry for your pain and if I offended you I apologize. I wish you nothing but the best.
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CMSgt James Nolan
CMSgt James Nolan
>1 y
MSgt (Join to see) Thanks.
And I do not think that anyone should have been offended by what you said, which was simply to find help-a perfect example of why we are all here. In one way or another, all of us that have migrated here are of the same ilk, that does not mean that there is agreement on all topics, but there is a common thread that pulled each here. Some of us have suffered immeasurably, some of us have lost some/many close to us, some are old/young, some fresh out of basic/boot/ocs. All of us have one thing in common, Service.
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SFC Mark Merino
SFC Mark Merino
>1 y
Sgt Ray Britt Where are you brother? I got locked out from using RallyPoint last night and I apologize for our conversation getting cut short.
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LTC Paul Labrador
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Individuals can get what is known as secondary PTSD. This is sometimes found in healthcare workers and care givers who often listen to primary PTSD patients talking about their trauma.
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SFC Mark Merino
SFC Mark Merino
>1 y
Amen! I don't see how other first responders do it! Cops do a 20 year combat tour. Nurses get to know their patient and often watch them deteriorate. Paramedics are like being Corpsman/ combat medics for as long as they can keep their wits. Let's not discuss how they get paid and treated. That is another thread.
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PO3 Hospital Corpsman (Hm)
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I personally don't think that PTS/PTSD is contagious, but with that being said, you don't have to be deployed to get PTS/PTSD. Happens to civilians and service members who have not deployed more often then one thinks would happen. All it takes is that one traumatic situation or moment that can leave someone scarred for life. The more important questions are: Can you identify the signs of PTS/PTSD? Do you know how to help or who to recommend/call to get help for a friend/family member? Do you know how to be supportive of your fellow shipmates/ service member?
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SFC Mark Merino
SFC Mark Merino
>1 y
SFC Peter Kirk(ines) THANKS FOR SHARING!!!!!! It really helps to talk talk talk it out until the pain subsides. PTS/D is an indiscriminant demon that enjoys a great number of victims. My wife (we get married in the next 25.5 hours) won't admit it, but losing everything in the tsunami really did a number on her. No combat involved, but her stories put me right in check. I could never work in a burn unit. I admire the strength it takes to pull that off. I can work with troops pouring out their horror stories and combat experiences and as long as I get to vent with my bosses (when I was working) I could manage it. I can't work with kids. We all have varying strengths and limitations. There is so much shame and embarrassment that gets brought up again and again and again. The fact is that these "MAJOR" barriers to treatment are made that way in our own mind. WE are our own worst enemy. No one that loves us wants us t suffer, be sad or to fail. That is the opposite of love. We mourn for our friends that we lost but no amount of suffering will honor their loss. You can't drink them back to life or make yourself happy. Believe me! That's been tried since alcohol was invented. The same goes for non-combat related PTS. We don't have the power to make things go the way we want. We do what we can and we help each other get on with our lives. Everyone has a point where they have to consider "Am I doing more harm than good (to oneself and to thers) by staying in this position?" It isn't quitting on yourself, it is investing in your well-being.
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PV2 Violet Case
PV2 Violet Case
>1 y
there however are some family members who do not know what is going on and think it to be crazy. Or they just cant deal with our panic attacks I too have problems with noise and children. I do ok one on one with a child if they are quiet and well mannered, but more then that and I'm a wreck. But some family members would rather not deal with it at all, they don't invite you to family events and it is sad. Like I told the ones in my family who are that way. ONe day I will not be here because the toxins the doctors say are killing me. My very own father said oh well we all have to die sometime. wow. I said ok but once life is over there is no bringing it back I wish you well dad and I have not seen him in over 4 yrs. He has been this way since I was discharged from the military in 1979 like I was his worst failure. It was not my fault I was sick. And when I put it in my head that it was not my fault and anything he decides in his life he must deal with. I can look at myself in the mirror and no I tried and thats what is important to me. Thats all any of us can do is try our best at life and if others can not handle life it is their doing. We each must answer for our own reactions. Yes noise makes me go in anxiety or panic attacks if they are unexpected noises especially. Last 4th of July, my grandchildren were very good. Helping grandma to walk and found seating not so close to the crowd of people but yet where we could see. the kids went and sat closer then us adults but my grandkids range from 7-19 and are old enough to sit in their own group. On the way back a couple with a golf cart had been watching how I had a grandchild on each side helping me to walk back and offered me a ride in their golf cart. Some people still have a heart even if they may not even no you. So there is still some good in life to wake up too.
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LT Operations Officer (Opso)
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I think depression is contagious in general. If you are down, it will effect others around you in most cases. I don't think PTSD is contagious, but it will still affect how others react when around someone with PTSD. It could be a cause of someone else becoming stressed, but not necessarily PTS.
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SFC Mark Merino
SFC Mark Merino
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Valid statement and good insight.
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LT Operations Officer (Opso)
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Sorry not dirty. Stupid phone...
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LT Operations Officer (Opso)
LT (Join to see)
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Dirty to hear that, I can only imagine how hard it must be dealing with such a trumatic experience.
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SFC Mark Merino
SFC Mark Merino
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LT (Join to see) Your phone is set on "politically correct"...lol
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Do you believe that your PTS (PTSD) symptoms can be found in your family members? It is called secondary PTS.
SGT Frank Leonardo
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I have PTSD or PTS which ever you like to call it. I would say that in some cases it is contagious to people or family around you. I have found some people around me have been just fine but on the hand I have found that it is the opposite and seems catch some. Nightmares for example seems I have pasted a couple onto my better half. They aren't military related but before hand she really didn't have them at all and she is a RN. I belive that it could be passed to other depending on the state of the other person and what they may have been through or maybe how tough there defenses are.
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SFC Mark Merino
SFC Mark Merino
>1 y
Don't get me started on nurses SGT Frank Leonardo! Angels of Mercy, every last one of them. I don't see how they do it. Day in and day out. My baby sister is a nurse and I am so proud of her.
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SGT Frank Leonardo
SGT Frank Leonardo
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Yes they have one heck of a job that they do when they have to work. Mine works 3 days a week. 12 hour shifts day and night. I hate having to flip shifts all the time wouldn't you SFC Mark Merino?
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SFC Mark Merino
SFC Mark Merino
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My sister is a psych nurse. My hero.
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MSG Brad Sand
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Contagious, no, better diagnosed yes. Additionally, the greater awareness of the injury has allowed many to seek help where they would not have in the past. How many of our past veterans had the same injury and just lived with it or self-medicated? No one would expect a soldier to not seek aid for gunshot wound, shrapnel, or fractured limb but for some reason we still have people thinking they need to suck it up and soldier on with these types of injuries?

Can you imagine anyone allowing a soldier to ignore any other type of injury? “No Specialist, you don’t need to seek medical attention for that gash across your chest, just try to make sure you don’t drip blood all over?” “Sergeant you can keep limping on that fractured leg, your good right?”
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SFC Mark Merino
SFC Mark Merino
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Fantastic analogy MSG Brad Sand
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MSG Brad Sand
MSG Brad Sand
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Sgt Ray Britt

While I am not sure a rape is the right analogy, I do understand where you are coming from. Yes, I do think the VA needs a LOT of improvement BUT I do not think they go out of their way to injure you...because that would require action and they are not likely going to do that. You know what, that is not fair either. There are some good people in the VA with their hearts in the right place. Yes, their are some that are terrible, but most do try to do the best that they can, with what they have.

Okay, going to your reply, not accepting what is owed you is not wise. I would be happy to have you work for me, especially if you are not going to take the wages you are do? Have they failed you, yes, allowing their failures to go uncorrected causes you to fail yourself and hurts everyone coming into the system behind you?
I think the awareness with PTSD/PTS gets a little better with each generation. Not saying it is great, or even better, but a little improvement is an improvement.
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MSG Brad Sand
MSG Brad Sand
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Sgt Ray Britt

I hope you are wrong and have years on RP sharing your knowledge and insight with the next generation of warrior guardians for our great Republic...and that our Republic stays great.
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SFC Mark Merino
SFC Mark Merino
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I wonder how our old friend Ray Britt is holding up?
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PO2 Jonathan Scharff
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I don't think it's contagious as in the medical definition of the term, however I think what you are describing is the effect that PTSD and other conditions have on our loved ones. It is not only our service time away from family that they have to deal with, it is also the soldier that returns home and may bring with them some issues that the family has to deal with forever. I applaud you for seeking assistance from the VA and also for sharing that with other vets. We need to support each other and show others the path to help when they are in need.
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SFC Mark Merino
SFC Mark Merino
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I can't imagine the hell that was experienced during the Vietnam War, especially upon returning home.
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SFC Mark Merino
SFC Mark Merino
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Welcome Home Marine! Semper Fi...and Thank You!
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SSG John Erny
SSG John Erny
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The Question I think needs to be asked is can some who cares very much for get PTSD from watching your suffering, in others words you take them down with you.
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SFC Mark Merino
SFC Mark Merino
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Good point SSG John Erny
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Cpl Joshua Wehrman
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I don't think it is contagious but that said my wife has gone through a lot for and with me. I literally would not be alive if it wasn't for her love and compassion. It has had effects on everyone close to me since Afghanistan My eldest daughter had it pretty bad. I am so grateful for the good people in my life that have helped me to where I am now and it is a day to day struggle for a lot of reasons
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SFC Mark Merino
SFC Mark Merino
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Amen! Support is key.
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A1C Student Clinic Admin Technician
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I don't know if it is contagious exactly, but I do know that it is struggle for everyone involved. I have a loved one dealing with it and though he's gotten much better over this past year, we have had some very trying times together to get him through it and some days it affects me more than it does him and as hard as it is, you have to realize that it will get better over time. I'm extremely thankful to those that have been helping my fiance with his PTSD because they have done so much for him and it makes me happy to see that people have a genuine concern for the well being of others even if they are not from the same unit or do not even know each other.
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CW5 Desk Officer
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SFC Mark Merino, this is an excellent point! I never considered what you describe, that PTS might be "contagious," but now that you say it, I can see that it definitely could be.

I didn't get PTSD from any deployment (my one six-month deployment was relatively stress free; a UN mission in Zagreb with fighting, but we weren't fighting, we were peacekeeping), but I did grow up in a home where my father demanded certain things (quiet was one ... we literally tip-toed around the house). I "caught" that, and I've seen myself demanding quiet of my family members.

So, it's kind of a generational phenomenon for me. Not "typical" PTSD in the deployment/combat sense, but still.
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CW5 Desk Officer
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Now I've read the other comments, so I'll amend my comments to say certain aspects of PTS (or PTS-like behaviors) were transferred to me, and I probably transferred them to my family members.
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SFC Mark Merino
SFC Mark Merino
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I'd pretty much say that we all do to a certain degree. The more important it was at the previous generation, the more of that we transfer. All we can do is be aware and get help if we identify it as a problem so we can hopefully skip the next generation.
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PV2 Abbott Shaull
PV2 Abbott Shaull
>1 y
Yep that is part of the problem in lot of the cases, is how much is actually our own problems, and which part did we get from our environment that we now have to figure out to fix. err.
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SFC Mark Merino
SFC Mark Merino
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What is the stuck point in our thinking that keeps us from moving past our obstacles? It isn't war, tragedy, or abuse that makes us stuck. It is something that we are holding onto mentally that keeps us spinning our wheels. Great input PV2 Abbott Shaull
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Cpl Dennis F.
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Let me try to share something here that may or may not apply.
Back in the early 70s I knew something was wrong, just didn't know quite what. The VA considered it a Nervous disorder (my claim which was denied) at the time and their help was worse than no help at all, almost leading to my death. I spent some time as an out patient and also went to the out reach vet centers that were brand new. I fled the VA for a number of scary reasons and eventually had to get away from the Vet Center also.

The early Vet Centers were run by poorly trained civilian case workers that were usually pissing themselves from the stories they heard and the daily activities going on (suicide by Cop, drug and alcohol use, armed vets, domestic problems)

At the time I went because I thought that I could help others , because the "helpers" were so inept. I myself was probably full tilt crazy at the time but didn't recognize it. I went to many group meetings and despite the fact that almost all of my time in RVN was in the field in combat, met a lot of guys with absolutely horrifying experiences (regaining consciousness stacked in the middle of a boat load of the dead)

I did my best to help the staff and the Vets see some of the problems that the vets were hiding from themselves, but it all became too much and my problems, due to being able to empathize with theirs became worse. I lived near by and when the Center closed for the night they would dump all of these still cranked up vets out on the street. I took them all home to have a beer and decompress a bit.

I had to get away from all of that for the sake of my own sanity and eventually found a good psychologist, and on my own Nickel, worked it out on my own. It was decades before the VA offered me any real help and that came about by my old Tank crewmen badgering me to get back to the VA. The difference then and now is like night and day. If you even think you need help, go get it. They have learned a lot from us RVN vets. If you need to talk, message me, or another old vet, we really have been there and know what it's like.
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SFC Mark Merino
SFC Mark Merino
>1 y
Cpl Dennis F. thank you for your service and Welcome Home! I cant say it enough that so many of us joined the military out of respect for the Vietnam veterans. So many of us owe our lives from what groundwork has been laid by all of you, like you stated. There wasn't even a DSM (psychology bible) diagnosis of PTSD until 1980. My first platoon sergeant was a Vietnam vet who taught me things that have yet to get into any field manual! We are drawn to each other like moths to a flame. Just being in the same room as veterans can ease our anxiety. The vet centers have come a long way since their inception. The one I went to in Phoenix had nothing but combat veterans ranging from Korea to Afghanistan. The residential PTSD program the VA has in Menlo Park has patients split down the middle: Vietnam 50% and Gulf War to present 50% (at least when I went).
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PV2 Abbott Shaull
PV2 Abbott Shaull
>1 y
I feel you Cpl Dennis Fresch in 1989, I got told I had Depression and Anxiety. Ever time I go so see Mental Health it always led back to this Depression, even though I keep telling them tell tale signs of PTSD which from my family Doctor, VA Provider, and to my Mental Health Coach keep ignoring, wife and family don't want to understand. Even since in August that we found out that I also have Aperger's, and ADHD to go with the 'Depression' and Anxiety both of them explain lot of things. Yet, they don't explain lot of the things that PTSD explains more than Depression, but then again I am not the Doctor, just person going through the fucking shit, trying to look for answer, and to get people to understand.
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