Posted on Oct 23, 2014
Do you believe that your PTS (PTSD) symptoms can be found in your family members? It is called secondary PTS.
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Not contagious in the literal sense, but rather secondary PTS. They have been doing a much better job teaching us to identify the signs and symptoms of PTS in the military, but in my opinion they do not explain the effect that PTS has on our loved ones.
Symptom example: Startle response.
You are doing everything in your power to keep noise to a minimum so you don't find yourself clinging to the ceiling. Suddenly, the kids accidentally drop something and BOOM! That demon rises up and takes control. Even though you calm down and apologize, you plant that seed in those around you. Before long, even if you manage not to react, the kids may. They flinch and panic because they expect your reaction. We have now conditioned others to feel what we feel.
So many arguments happen in the family because of the lack of understanding that our symptoms can effect our loved ones. Don't waste your time pointing fingers. YOU might be Rambo and think you can deal with it on your own. Your family may not have that same iron constitution. If you don't want to get help for yourself, get help for their sake. One Team One Fight applies to family even more than the branch you faithfully serve.
This is an example from my life before I got help from the VA. Please share your opinions for the benefit of the community. God bless. Uncle Mark
Symptom example: Startle response.
You are doing everything in your power to keep noise to a minimum so you don't find yourself clinging to the ceiling. Suddenly, the kids accidentally drop something and BOOM! That demon rises up and takes control. Even though you calm down and apologize, you plant that seed in those around you. Before long, even if you manage not to react, the kids may. They flinch and panic because they expect your reaction. We have now conditioned others to feel what we feel.
So many arguments happen in the family because of the lack of understanding that our symptoms can effect our loved ones. Don't waste your time pointing fingers. YOU might be Rambo and think you can deal with it on your own. Your family may not have that same iron constitution. If you don't want to get help for yourself, get help for their sake. One Team One Fight applies to family even more than the branch you faithfully serve.
This is an example from my life before I got help from the VA. Please share your opinions for the benefit of the community. God bless. Uncle Mark
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We need to stop using the word contagious like we are dealing with the chicken pox.
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SFC Mark Merino
"transference" might not be the easiest term that is understood to convey the message.
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LTJG Daniel Bouysou
Yep, we need to back off the psycho-speak and and use words that communicate to all.
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Yep, nothing in the psychological world is cut and dried. That is why there are individual treatment plans and no quick fixes and no magic pills. Come complaint, "Doc, you do not understand what I am going through." There are a few things that are common in all treatment plans and one is "hope."
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I think you bring up some great points. My personal example is a little different. Those I hang out with understand my issues and how I deal with them. They have learned how to act around me. They know if we go out that I am picky of where we sit and things like that. I spent a lot of time explaining to my 2 children as well. I would not say they are picking up things but they understand that sometimes Daddy needs to move tables and whatnot.
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SFC Mark Merino
I'm glad you can come together and work as a team. I had a very hard time being supported in the home and the additional stress put on me was unbearable. Lots of unnecessary anger and frustration where a simple hug would have made a big difference. Go Flyers!
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SFC Mark Merino
I purposely try to sit in places that make me feel uncomfortable and move places when it is too much. Exposure therapy baby steps.
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PV2 Violet Case
I kept my being the military sort of a secret from most people and my experiences until I got really sick a few years ago. It took people in this town to really think of why I had always been so strong all my life. Now they are all beginning to know. Some still don't approve because this little town believes the man is the head of the household. I do believe this to a degree but the woman needs to be respected and things should be discussed. At first when I came here in the early 1980's I was a divorced woman :-( frowned on for it. But later when the Des Moines Ia news came out that my x husband killed his wife he married after me they looked at me differently because that could have been me. I owe Chaplin Larsen from Fort Hood TX a huge thank you for making me see that God did not want me to be a victim of such abuse and pointed out a house divided can not stand and he took me to a safe house and at that time my x husband was in the military there and they took him in custody I told them if they took their eyes off him he would run and he did. He ended up with a dishonorable discharge. Now he is married to a woman that took out a cast iron skillet and told him if he touched her in abuse she would use it. carma. But now after the past few years fighting for my life people are seeing and they ask where do you want to sit, are there to many people here should we go some where else. They are respecting my thoughts and feelings. That shows love and respect to me and that is all I ask. So if you have a group of people who do this for you keep them in your life by all means.
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LTC Paul Labrador is correct about the secondary PTSD. There is actually clinical evidence that shows that those who deal with the victims of trauma can start show similar symptoms and behaviors of those they deal with on a regular basis. It can also be hard for friends and loved ones to understand your reactions to things that don't seem like a big deal to them.
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PV2 Violet Case
I agree Sgt Charles Vernier, like at Christmas I used to love that time of year when my two daughters were small. But as the family grew and I had nine grandkids who all have side effects it is a lot for me to deal with in one area and this year my younger daughter had it at her house and invited even more people. I tried to sit by the window next to a vet friend but still didn't help I went into what I call tremors I was shaking,to much noise and threw up and my daughter got angry and said I always have to ruin everything.So my oldest grandson of 19yrs who loves and respects me and the vet friend brought me home and I cried all night.The VA sent me to a retired veteran pshyc who helped me greatly for 3 yrs but when he moved to a civilian pshyc who would just go huhuh huhuh didnt work. So I found talking to my brother veterans helps me.some may wonder how can she be so messed up from her short time and not in
war but I have more toxins in me then some who served two wars. Check out Fort McClellan toxic exposure to the fullest and you will be surprised it may be effecting any one of you if you were ever there.
war but I have more toxins in me then some who served two wars. Check out Fort McClellan toxic exposure to the fullest and you will be surprised it may be effecting any one of you if you were ever there.
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This so much like what I have been going through the last year or so with my family. The damn trouble for me, it hard to get help, because the people who are seeing what happen refuse to go in with me. Largely due to the fact, that everyone labels it due to Depression, and no one wants to look or believe differently. Sad thing when sister-in-law suffers from Depression, and she is freaking expert in diagnosing all types of mental illnesses, of course so are both of sisters (including my wife). I get blamed for 90% of failing relationship with my daughter who just 13, wife refuses, to see that lot of is goes to how she been treating me to in the last year too.
I have always thought it was more in this lines than it was in general Depression. I had father who was verbally abusive, and both of my parents believe in hitting for distant discipline, or at least it felt like it while they were practicing it. It drives me crazy when my wife can sit there tell me I am exactly like my father, when she knows how much I never wanted to be like him.
No I am not trying to be Rambo, I just had bad taste left in my mouth after week or two in the Mental Ward of Womack Hospital at Fort Bragg, thanks to my Company Commander. When I got diagnosed with Depression and Anxiety. Even with this he refused to believed these were legit issues, or understand that he set up the conditions within the Company that led up to these symptoms showing, due to him believing that I had been sandbagging. Just tired of fighting over stuff, and want to find why I have so few friends....
I have always thought it was more in this lines than it was in general Depression. I had father who was verbally abusive, and both of my parents believe in hitting for distant discipline, or at least it felt like it while they were practicing it. It drives me crazy when my wife can sit there tell me I am exactly like my father, when she knows how much I never wanted to be like him.
No I am not trying to be Rambo, I just had bad taste left in my mouth after week or two in the Mental Ward of Womack Hospital at Fort Bragg, thanks to my Company Commander. When I got diagnosed with Depression and Anxiety. Even with this he refused to believed these were legit issues, or understand that he set up the conditions within the Company that led up to these symptoms showing, due to him believing that I had been sandbagging. Just tired of fighting over stuff, and want to find why I have so few friends....
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SFC Mark Merino
Never accept things for the way they are unless that is how you want to spend the rest of your life. For the record, a 13 year old daughter can be hard on any parent. My daugter and I have had our moments. I swear it is easier having 3 boys than one daughter at times. LOTS of emotions and some of us dad's want to approach everything logically. Hang tough and God Bless.
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PV2 Abbott Shaull
Yeah I know they can be, it just frustrating. Trying to deal with V.A. on my compensation, dealing with my daughter who going through her own Mental issues, and getting blamed for them. Which if I have been such an asshole, I maybe. Not to make an excuse, the responsible other party in the marriage, could of said something long before now. She gets upsets, because I don't have clue where start, I want to get help, but keep telling her it not flipping depression like the everyone else trying to say it is. Errr.. I get told that I should look at myself at times when I have these fits, all I am thinking, is yeah, maybe you all really need to listen to yourselves and think about what problems I have that we know about. Think about it then get back with me. That is 100 percent of my problem I approach everything logically and rationally, wife and daughter not so much.
Like I said grew up with father who yell at me and my brothers growing up for every little things. I can't work on mechanical due, to the fact, when ever I did try to help him, he would never explain what to do and why, just expected me to already know how and why. Being in the Navy, we all know the language he used. To top it off he was cross-dresser.
So going to the Army was a way to get away from that situation, and find out what I may want to do with my life. I knew I wanted to go to college eventually, and career path after the Army. What I had read in history, I figure for the first enlistment, I may as well go Infantry and Airborne, just get them out of the way. So when the Drill Sergeant came around to pick on me, it was no big deal. When other people in the company and my own platoon I just shrug it off. Heard much worse growing up. Made it through there and through Airborne Training, and some of the guys I went through both coming up to me like they were awestruck that I made it through both with all the shit I took. Sadly, one of those guys, blew his brains out year later in 2/504th P.I.R, and he was one of those who in basic who used give everyone who seemed 'weaker' shit. Through the time in Basic, I heard lot strange things, some I wish I had never heard, others were quite amusing. Same while I was in Alpha Co, 1/325th A.I.R. seen lot things in 3rd Platoon. Somedays I thought we were going to have a KKK meeting break out on 2nd floor of the barracks with the heated discussion by some of the southern boys, who were talking about the Platoon Sgt. Sad thing of was, that 2nd platoon was on the same floor at the far end, and we were next to stairwell that we were suppose use. D Co from the 3rd floor was suppose to use the other stairwell. So to say the least, it did cause some issue for quite a few months until a couple E-4s separated from the Army.
After my separation from the Military my life has been one constant struggle to get it back on track. Looking back everything since I have found out that I have Asperger's, ADHD, and Anxiety that has explained a lot, but still leave some large holes, that still can't be explained. Anxiety and ADHD explain why taking test is so difficult, or going to Interviews, or doing good enough to get a called back for next part. Asperger explains why I have always liked to have a day planned out, even though I hate the hurry up and wait from the Army standpoint. When I ask simple question that can be answer by yes or no, I do not expect to have to qualify with anything else. Like yesterday I got up, put my phone down, to do something. Snowplow people came around, got around, put my phone in my pocket before heading out the door. Hour or so later, I was looking for my phone, last place I remember was where I put my phone down at, I ask my wife, if my phone was there? She was like no, then she goes why? I am like, just looking for my phone, and that last place I remember placing it. Then she goes off, like I wouldn't move your phone, so I could put my phone down. I am like ADHD, does that ring a bell....sigh...
Well I have bored everyone enough today...to long winded....
Like I said grew up with father who yell at me and my brothers growing up for every little things. I can't work on mechanical due, to the fact, when ever I did try to help him, he would never explain what to do and why, just expected me to already know how and why. Being in the Navy, we all know the language he used. To top it off he was cross-dresser.
So going to the Army was a way to get away from that situation, and find out what I may want to do with my life. I knew I wanted to go to college eventually, and career path after the Army. What I had read in history, I figure for the first enlistment, I may as well go Infantry and Airborne, just get them out of the way. So when the Drill Sergeant came around to pick on me, it was no big deal. When other people in the company and my own platoon I just shrug it off. Heard much worse growing up. Made it through there and through Airborne Training, and some of the guys I went through both coming up to me like they were awestruck that I made it through both with all the shit I took. Sadly, one of those guys, blew his brains out year later in 2/504th P.I.R, and he was one of those who in basic who used give everyone who seemed 'weaker' shit. Through the time in Basic, I heard lot strange things, some I wish I had never heard, others were quite amusing. Same while I was in Alpha Co, 1/325th A.I.R. seen lot things in 3rd Platoon. Somedays I thought we were going to have a KKK meeting break out on 2nd floor of the barracks with the heated discussion by some of the southern boys, who were talking about the Platoon Sgt. Sad thing of was, that 2nd platoon was on the same floor at the far end, and we were next to stairwell that we were suppose use. D Co from the 3rd floor was suppose to use the other stairwell. So to say the least, it did cause some issue for quite a few months until a couple E-4s separated from the Army.
After my separation from the Military my life has been one constant struggle to get it back on track. Looking back everything since I have found out that I have Asperger's, ADHD, and Anxiety that has explained a lot, but still leave some large holes, that still can't be explained. Anxiety and ADHD explain why taking test is so difficult, or going to Interviews, or doing good enough to get a called back for next part. Asperger explains why I have always liked to have a day planned out, even though I hate the hurry up and wait from the Army standpoint. When I ask simple question that can be answer by yes or no, I do not expect to have to qualify with anything else. Like yesterday I got up, put my phone down, to do something. Snowplow people came around, got around, put my phone in my pocket before heading out the door. Hour or so later, I was looking for my phone, last place I remember was where I put my phone down at, I ask my wife, if my phone was there? She was like no, then she goes why? I am like, just looking for my phone, and that last place I remember placing it. Then she goes off, like I wouldn't move your phone, so I could put my phone down. I am like ADHD, does that ring a bell....sigh...
Well I have bored everyone enough today...to long winded....
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Secondary PTSD in Children
Thirty-nine percent of those who live with a veteran who is struggling with post-traumatic
stress disorder will develop Secondary PTSD (also known as STS or Secondary
Traumatic Stress). Be on the look out for symptoms of STS in your child and if you notice
any of these behaviors, seek help as soon as possible. Unfortunately, if left untreated,
Secondary PTSD can negatively impact the rest of your child’s life!
Signs & Symptoms of Secondary PTSD to Watch for in Children:
Extreme mood changes, irritability;
Depression and anxiety;
Losing creativity and interest in activities they would typically enjoy;
Loneliness, withdrawal and pulling away;
Acting out more than a child should at their age;
Fighting and trying to harm siblings;
Self-destruction or destruction in property;
Stating or acting as they are to blame for a parent’s PTSD outburst;
Stating or feeling as though a parent no longer cares for or loves them;
Becoming numb towards family, friends, and things they use to take pleasure in;
Copying a parent’s attitude and actions in an attempt to reconnect with their parent;
Attempting to take on more than they should at their age;
Trying to fill the void in the family or a take a parent’s place;
A drop in grades, or failing in school when they use to have strong grades;
Hard time making new friends and keeping old friends;
Suddenly getting into an unusual amount of trouble and taking place in violent acts.
- See more at: http://www.familyofavet.com/secondary_ptsd_children.html#sthash.QQTIBRwq.dpuf
Thirty-nine percent of those who live with a veteran who is struggling with post-traumatic
stress disorder will develop Secondary PTSD (also known as STS or Secondary
Traumatic Stress). Be on the look out for symptoms of STS in your child and if you notice
any of these behaviors, seek help as soon as possible. Unfortunately, if left untreated,
Secondary PTSD can negatively impact the rest of your child’s life!
Signs & Symptoms of Secondary PTSD to Watch for in Children:
Extreme mood changes, irritability;
Depression and anxiety;
Losing creativity and interest in activities they would typically enjoy;
Loneliness, withdrawal and pulling away;
Acting out more than a child should at their age;
Fighting and trying to harm siblings;
Self-destruction or destruction in property;
Stating or acting as they are to blame for a parent’s PTSD outburst;
Stating or feeling as though a parent no longer cares for or loves them;
Becoming numb towards family, friends, and things they use to take pleasure in;
Copying a parent’s attitude and actions in an attempt to reconnect with their parent;
Attempting to take on more than they should at their age;
Trying to fill the void in the family or a take a parent’s place;
A drop in grades, or failing in school when they use to have strong grades;
Hard time making new friends and keeping old friends;
Suddenly getting into an unusual amount of trouble and taking place in violent acts.
- See more at: http://www.familyofavet.com/secondary_ptsd_children.html#sthash.QQTIBRwq.dpuf
Secondary PTSD (STS) in Children - Signs, Symptoms, and Red Flags
39% of all children who live with a veteran who has PTSD will develop secondary PTSD or secondary traumatic stress (STS). If left untreated, STS can have lifelong consequences. Find out what signs and symptoms of secondary PTSD to watch for in your child.
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PV2 Violet Case
thank you for that information. Why didn't the VA tell me of this?But then why didn't they tell me about the toxins at Ft McClellan?I have lost two children one premi stillborn and one miscarriage and had two daughters. The first carried longer then 9 mos difficult delivery, then my 2nd child had some deformatlities at birth. But I have 9 grandchildren that show almost all the symtoms you talk about here in that secondary. My older daughter is going to college for her bachelors in social work to help mental children. 3 of her children get social security. I also found my toxins go threw the genes and it made me feel guilty and my lovely daughter said momma you did the right thing to go in the service. It is one thing we talk about that lights you up like a bright candle so don't feel that way because I am proud of you none of it was your fault. But I will surely pass this link to her if she has not already studied it yet in college. thank you.
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How many have been amused by a bunch of vets coming into a convention hotel meeting room and a large fraction try to get a chair where their backs are not to the door?
(I'm amused because I always arrive at the AO early enough to stake out a good position.)
To get to the topic of secondary PTS: that sort of behavior can actually be stressful to friends and relatives in its more extreme forms. Getting really edgy when there are fireworks going off a couple miles away also rubs off.
(I'm amused because I always arrive at the AO early enough to stake out a good position.)
To get to the topic of secondary PTS: that sort of behavior can actually be stressful to friends and relatives in its more extreme forms. Getting really edgy when there are fireworks going off a couple miles away also rubs off.
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SFC Mark Merino
People making statements like that get under anybody's skin. "Go sell crazy somewhere else lady!" Some people.
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For those of you who are familiar with the Christian Bible, this is a great thread from one of my favorite Chaplains.
https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/for-my-bible-scholars-i-would-like-to-engage-you-with-a-discussion-on-who-had-ptsd-in-the-bible
https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/for-my-bible-scholars-i-would-like-to-engage-you-with-a-discussion-on-who-had-ptsd-in-the-bible
For my Bible scholars, I would like to engage you with a discussion on who had PTSD in the Bible....
Saul and David as traumatized warrior kings. Saul committed atrocities, flew into violent rages, turned against David and other friends, murdered priests and holy women. We are told, “The spirit of God left him, and an evil spirit sent by the Lord tormented him.” (Samuel 16:14). Traditional cultures have always known of this wound. They understood that the wound was also spiritual, moral and holistic in its essence. For example, the Sioux...
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I don't know that contagious would really be the right terminology. PTSD is experience based, so I'd have to say that the "contagious" reaction is merely a case of sympathetic/empathetic reaction.
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PO3 John Jeter
I would say that a persons PTSD can be aggravated by close contact with another person suffering the same thing. The stress being endured can be felt or noticed by others and could contribute to one own discomfort. That's just my opinion though. I'm certainly no expert!
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LTJG Daniel Bouysou
You got that right SGT Richard Hanner. Where is all this pop-psyche coming from?
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I get what you are saying but I would ask you to try to use the correct wording when talking about PTSD. The group I volunteer for is working to combat PTS(d) Phobia and sometimes when people who are not educated about the disorder can be easily confused. While individuals may be intelligent the masses are stupid and fall prey to ideas, like an Anxiety disorder being contagious.
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