Posted on Jun 25, 2015
Do You Buy This? A Unique form of Combat Stress for our Drone Pilots (Remotely Piloted Aircraft)???
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Obviously, despite my efforts not to.... I see the world, and DOD, from a ground Soldiers perspective. And, I suspect there is stress in all sorts of jobs.
I understand pilots (actual and remotely piloted aircraft - drones) have to face different dangers than I did, as well as live the the decisions they make and the damage and collateral damage of their strikes. But, I can't see this as a combat stress. And, I have never walked in those shoes either.
I did considerable research in grad school on shell shock, combat stress, combat related stress disorder, and the PTSD (the current term), and I am not sure I know enough about this new term, but I know when I read the article I actually laughed out loud... As, I just can't see this - feel this.
I know I lived by (shared a duplex) an F-15 pilot in Europe who would fly "Allied Force" Sorties and be back home each night... drinking... I know B2s fly from Whiteman and come back in a day... And, I know whenever I deployed, they were progressively longer... and conditions were not up to the standards my Air Force brothers consider adequate... Again, likely from my very jaded perspective is what probably made laugh out loud.
I also know I have PTSD, and TBI, and that I attended a lot of memorial ceremonies, presented a lot of Purple Hearts, and dealt with more than one incident of collateral damage.
So, help me understand... Because I want to understand this from the USAF perspective.
Claire McCaskill is my senator, and I actually sat in her office several times with my boss, and got scuffed up on issues in the Army and Fort Leonard Wood. She is a huge military advocate, and an unspoken watchdog and critic too.
But, again, I not seeing this one.
http://www.airforcetimes.com/story/military/capitol-hill/2015/06/24/sen-claire-mccaskill-wants-pentagon-to-address-new-form-of-combat-stress/29248023/
I understand pilots (actual and remotely piloted aircraft - drones) have to face different dangers than I did, as well as live the the decisions they make and the damage and collateral damage of their strikes. But, I can't see this as a combat stress. And, I have never walked in those shoes either.
I did considerable research in grad school on shell shock, combat stress, combat related stress disorder, and the PTSD (the current term), and I am not sure I know enough about this new term, but I know when I read the article I actually laughed out loud... As, I just can't see this - feel this.
I know I lived by (shared a duplex) an F-15 pilot in Europe who would fly "Allied Force" Sorties and be back home each night... drinking... I know B2s fly from Whiteman and come back in a day... And, I know whenever I deployed, they were progressively longer... and conditions were not up to the standards my Air Force brothers consider adequate... Again, likely from my very jaded perspective is what probably made laugh out loud.
I also know I have PTSD, and TBI, and that I attended a lot of memorial ceremonies, presented a lot of Purple Hearts, and dealt with more than one incident of collateral damage.
So, help me understand... Because I want to understand this from the USAF perspective.
Claire McCaskill is my senator, and I actually sat in her office several times with my boss, and got scuffed up on issues in the Army and Fort Leonard Wood. She is a huge military advocate, and an unspoken watchdog and critic too.
But, again, I not seeing this one.
http://www.airforcetimes.com/story/military/capitol-hill/2015/06/24/sen-claire-mccaskill-wants-pentagon-to-address-new-form-of-combat-stress/29248023/
PTSD
Combat Stress Control
Stress
Drones
Edited 9 y ago
Posted 9 y ago
Responses: 45
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I'm sorry, but I fail to see stress unless you are talking about running out of batteries!
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Sir,
I thought I would offer my perspective for what it's worth.
I absolutely believe our RPA operators can suffer from some unique form of combat stress. Maybe it's not the same combat stress that our ground forces may face but we would be naive as a military to turn our back to operators because there boots aren't on the battlefield. These operators have the unique ability unlike anything in the history of warfare where they can fly combat missions during the day from thousands of miles away and then go home to their families at night. They are in combat with our enemy in places are ground forces aren't. We need to stop trying to compare what we know today as combat stress to the future of modern warfare.
I thought I would offer my perspective for what it's worth.
I absolutely believe our RPA operators can suffer from some unique form of combat stress. Maybe it's not the same combat stress that our ground forces may face but we would be naive as a military to turn our back to operators because there boots aren't on the battlefield. These operators have the unique ability unlike anything in the history of warfare where they can fly combat missions during the day from thousands of miles away and then go home to their families at night. They are in combat with our enemy in places are ground forces aren't. We need to stop trying to compare what we know today as combat stress to the future of modern warfare.
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COL Charles Williams
Hooah! SSgt (Join to see) Thanks for your comments and insight. You are right, this may be the wave of future. Stress is stress, and I am sure this is not easy. As I said, I have walked in those shoes and I am just trying to understand.
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Suspended Profile
COL Charles Williams - very well spoken. PTSD is and has been an ever evolving diagnosis and we should be willing to accept that it will continue to evolve as time goes by.
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Keep in mind Sir, that everything causes stress, good and bad. You are zipping along in your drone, and you get the order to take out this target. You fire your hellfire, did you kill the target, to kill friendlies, did you just lay waist to a school full of kids. Not like the Guys in intel are giving you a ton of info besides "good hit." Now after you laid waste to the target, you get off your drone shift and go home to dinner. Now while for those of who been in the "box" this sounds great. But know when we pull that trigger it was a bad guy, they don't always know, and have to live with the fact they may have taken some innocents and will never know it. That would eat at many of us.
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COL Charles Williams
You are correct CW3 Kevin Storm Stress does come in call forms, and it affects each of us differently. I am sure this is stress, but not necessary combat related stress. But, I can see it.
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I understand PTSD in those that have taken incoming (of any kind) in a continuous hostile environment. Real threats of life changing (or ending) moments, keeping your head on a swivel, and doing everything you can to ensure all your team mates all get home intact; , able to kiss their wife and hug their children. When an "event" does occur, you instinctively default to your training...
When I think of "Remote Warriors", I can rationalize the environment they reside in, and leave open the possibility that remotely taking out a building where innocent women/children may be (or finding out afterword), could be a contributing stressor in someone that did not thoroughly think the ramifications of their actions before they volunteered to serve in the "Green Gun Club".
When I think of "Remote Warriors", I can rationalize the environment they reside in, and leave open the possibility that remotely taking out a building where innocent women/children may be (or finding out afterword), could be a contributing stressor in someone that did not thoroughly think the ramifications of their actions before they volunteered to serve in the "Green Gun Club".
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COL Charles Williams
Hooah GySgt Curtis L Leetch! Thanks for your comments. I liked the analogies to law enforcement and other first responders and how they deal with horrors... and then go home...
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To me, it sounds like someone getting PTSD from reading documents on Interigations.
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COL Charles Williams
Hooah MSgt (Join to see). Stress... perhaps... I am not sure about the PTS from reading interrogation documents... Tell me more.
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MSgt (Join to see)
I have heard claims of this from Intel people. I also know of a claim of PTSD by a USMC Combatives Instructor (that did not see combat). His claim was that he has PTSD from training people to go to war.
Funny, I too trained people to go to "War" and most of them ended up running convoys and assisting the Army in doing Convoy Security. I taught them everything I was authorized to do and things that I was not permitted to. My issues did not stem from this part of my service.
Funny, I too trained people to go to "War" and most of them ended up running convoys and assisting the Army in doing Convoy Security. I taught them everything I was authorized to do and things that I was not permitted to. My issues did not stem from this part of my service.
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COL Charles Williams
MSgt (Join to see) - The combatives instructor is even more laughable... Don't all NCOs train Soldiers (Sailors, Airmen, and Marines) to go to war?
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I met a commander of such a unit. He gave a talk, and acknowledged its very real. They have to make life and death judgements. Ironically even though they live at home with their families, it can make if more difficult to cope with balancing family and work. Also, there would be less unit bonding than really being there. Here a good article I found.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/23/us/drone-pilots-found-to-get-stress-disorders-much-as-those-in-combat-do.html?_r=0
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/23/us/drone-pilots-found-to-get-stress-disorders-much-as-those-in-combat-do.html?_r=0
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COL Charles Williams, Collateral damage of their strikes or their decisions good or bad can have traumatic effects on their subconscious and psychic combined that with the reality that they are miles away from the action safe from harm only adds to their psychic. This is similar to a pilot dropping bombs on a village suspecting to house Taliban but later to discover that the Taliban had moved out and the only death and injury was to non- combat local villagers, women, children, and elderly. How many killings does it take for a pilot’s mind to be harmed by their actions? Given that we are dealing with a new weapon system and it is related to war it is logical to call it Combat Stress.
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COL Charles Williams
Thanks! CPT Pedro Meza I understand the stress part... not sure.... it is combat related... for the purpose of the VA disability. But, I get that stress comes in all forms, as does PTS.
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CPT Pedro Meza
COL Charles Williams, killing and wounded from a long distance during times of war are still related to our new modern combat, we have to adopt to our modern warfare.
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COL Charles Williams
CPT Pedro Meza - Hooah! You may be correct, as this may be the wave of the future... land combat... could fade away...
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So my question is this. Who has the ear of all these congressmen? First they are going to get a medal just for being a drone pilot, now they are going to get their own form of PTSD. Who do these guys know that the ground pounders don't?
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CPT Pedro Meza
SGT William Howell, these drone pilots kill and wound in the function of their duty, and need to be recognize because it helps them to be accepted.
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COL Charles Williams
CPT Pedro Meza - The funny thing 1LT William Clardy SGT William Howell... I thing USAF Drone Pilots wear flight suits and scarfs....
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1LT William Clardy
COL Charles Williams, getting pilots to not wear flight suits seems to be a as formidable challenge as getting doctors to wear their uniform properly, at least to me (who still remembers as a young sergeant being examined by a doctor whose chest hairs were poking out of the collar of his khakis because he wasn't wearing a t-shirt).
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COL Charles Williams
1LT William Clardy - Doctors, medical personnel, and aviators... are a different lot...
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http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/06/20/how-america-broke-its-drone-force.html
This adds a more historical view of the situation drone pilots are experiencing. Add in the stress of a bomber crew and personally conducting your own BDA, subtract the fear of death and add the information from this article in, I can see a case being made. I'm not going to directly compare it to an up close and personal firefight, but they are definitely not playing Microsoft flight simulator X.
This adds a more historical view of the situation drone pilots are experiencing. Add in the stress of a bomber crew and personally conducting your own BDA, subtract the fear of death and add the information from this article in, I can see a case being made. I'm not going to directly compare it to an up close and personal firefight, but they are definitely not playing Microsoft flight simulator X.
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PO3 Sherry Thornburg
I have read that and was thinking about it as I read and responded to this post. Glad someone found that link to add to this discussion.
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