Posted on Nov 21, 2019
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I don't think they are. Any officer with stars on their chest or shoulders is a politician period. If you need Congress to confirm a promotion, you're no longer a servicemember...you're a politician and you loose the majority of respect of your subordinates. Minus a very few generals and admirals. What do you think? PFC (Join to see) SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL SSG(P) James J. Palmer IV aka "JP4" LTC Stephen F. CPL Dave Hoover SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth SSG (Join to see) Capt Dwayne Conyers CPT Jack Durish
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Lt Col Jim Coe
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SSG(P) (Join to see), I think you fail to understand the jobs assigned to General and Flag Officers (GO/FO). I worked at the unified command and major command levels for over 20 years (military, contractor, and DAC) and had the opportunity to see what GO/FO actually do. You might think they are politicians, but the facts show they are military officers who have to deal with politicians on a regular basis. I spent time working with Air Force, Navy, and Army GO/FO and all of them felt the burden of working with appointed members of the Administration (Deputy Assistant Under Secretary of Something), Members of Congress and Senators, and the legions of staffers working for Congress-persons. In many cases the GO/FO spent a lot of time preparing for these Distinguished Visitors from DC. They were briefed on critical operational and budget issues and how the DV supported or failed to support the organization. They often had to digest a 4-inch binder of position papers on these issues and other issues their subordinates wanted to get in front of the Washington luminaries. (This is probably all done electronically now, so the GO/FO is reading on his laptop or phone.) Because of this part of their mission, you might think they are politicians. (Lay down with dogs, get up with fleas.) Actually the GO/FO-politician meetings I was in showed me that the GO/FO represented his or her command and mission very well. The politicians liked to ask what they thought were "Gotcha" questions, but almost all of the time the GO/FO were way ahead of them.

The other half of the GO/FO's time was spent actually trying to run the organization they were in charge of. They dealt with the really sticky problems. Budgetary issues, personnel cuts, UCMJ violations, and a seemingly never-ending stream of Presidential Directives, Operations Orders, Planning Directives and lots of other stuff all requiring their approval or decision to keep the place functioning. One of my favorite quotes from H.T. Johnson, Gen, USAF, and US Commander in Chief Transportation, "Any staff work that takes longer than four to six weeks probably isn't worth doing." He was right, but it didn't stop the folks in the Pentagon from generating questions requiring at least that much time to answer.

I never determined the political affiliation of any of the GO/FO I worked around. Many were men and women of strong moral conviction and readily admitted their faith in God. They were often humbled by the power and responsibility they had been given. I'm reasonably confident they voted in elections, but never said whom they voted for. Overall, they are military professionals working at a much different level than you or me.
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CPL Joseph Elinger
CPL Joseph Elinger
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Yes, however the Chiefs of each branch can get a yay or nay from Capital Hill in their selection, case in point Gen Butler, USMC.
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SMSgt Cary Baker
SMSgt Cary Baker
>1 y
Good post Col. - I worked at HQ AF Space Command and spent many days and conferences with the 4 & 3 Stars (commanders) - we cannot begin to fathom the responsibility & political issues they deal with every single day. I'm not sure they sleep.
Traveling on a moments notice to fly to the Pentagon when their leadership calls. They also have to remain neutral in the political beliefs.
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LTC Reginald Brown
LTC Reginald Brown
4 y
Very well stated. Allow me to bring it down a level. As a 1LT in Germany, I had a ammunition clerk who always asked why everything had to be just so and in accordance with the Army Regulation. As I look back, I am glad I was not a jerk and actually took time to explain it to him. He was a great soldier and was eventually promoted to SGT and put in charge of other soldiers. We ran into each other on the post on day and during the reminiscing, he said now that he is in charge of others he understands the need for everything to be just so. ... The same applies to you, when you become a command sergeant major, and our generals, when we do our jobs well, we are given more responsibility to care for more soldiers. Do not denigrate the years of dedicated service you would have given to get to CSM and do not denigrate the years of service it takes to get to general.
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PO1 Kevin Dougherty
PO1 Kevin Dougherty
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In addition to all that, I know that the Commandant USCG and the MCPOCG both spend a lot of time visiting front line units, and meeting with the personnel looking for what's working and what is not. Together or separately, they seem to spend about half their time in the field. I would assume that's a little harder in the much larger sister services, but then again, they also have a lot more people with stars on their shoulders.
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I think you and I should sit down sometime and you can tell me everything you know about military service and then after that 5 minutes is up I’ll correct all of your misconceptions
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MSG (Anonymous) I ain’t skurred
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MSG (Anonymous) mmmm...souls are delicious
SPC Nancy Greene
SPC Nancy Greene
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I was a SP4 ( with a BA degree) while on Active Duty and I would welcome a conversation with you SFC Thomas Foreman. I think it would be very interesting and informative!
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1SG Signal Support Systems Specialist
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Yes. And I think Lt Col Jim Coe gave a very informative and eloquent response. You would do well to read what he wrote
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SPC Nancy Greene
SPC Nancy Greene
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Totally Agree MSG Mark Gomez!
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LCDR Aerospace Engineering Duty, Maintenance (AMDO and AMO)
LCDR (Join to see)
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Yes, but what does he know? He had to get Congress's approval to get promoted!
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Do you think a General or Admiral is still considered a servicemember in the eyes of their subordinates?
SFC Ralph E Kelley
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Edited >1 y ago
Yes - absolutely yes - in answer to the first question. No real thoughts yet on your commentary - some things require more than a hip-shot answer.
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SPC Stewart Smith
SPC Stewart Smith
>1 y
MSG (Anonymous) - "what the hell qualifies a SPC to evaluate the legitimacy of a flag officer"
Well..... you see, this sham shield of mine protects me from ridicule and has also given me all the knowledge of everything military.
I hope you know that's sarcasm. If not: that was sarcasm.
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SPC Nancy Greene
SPC Nancy Greene
>1 y
Definitely! However I was a SP4 who had the extreme displeasure of having a ‘psychotic’ CG while stationed in Germany and he was Neither an effective leader and Definitely Not a politician!MSG (Anonymous)
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SPC Nancy Greene
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SPC Nancy Greene
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COL Joel Weeks
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All due respect SPC Voye, but any officer to be promoted to the rank of Major (or Lt Commander for USN and USCG) must be confirmed by the Senate. It’s US Law. And most General and Flag officers strive extremely hard to maintain an apolitical public posture. We swear to support and defend the constitution of these United States, NOT a political party.
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SFC Scott Higgins
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Edited >1 y ago
SPC(P) Voye, It saddens me to see a post like this from a soldier, any soldier, much less one who is looking for a promotion. Not one general or admiral made their rank as a "politician" as you call them. They, just like enlisted folks, did their time, punched their tickets along the way to get to the rank they earned. Yes earned. Sure, there are some "bad apples" out there, just like in the NCO corps but to call anyone a politician who serves our country as you do is disrespectful of the time and effort they put in to get there. I also read Lt. Col Jim Coe's very well written and informative response. You should take a moment and read it. Yes, they are still service members, subject to UCMJ - Just Like You!
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CPL Joseph Elinger
CPL Joseph Elinger
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The Armed Forces, like anywhere else, including a marriage bedroom, are never completely devoid of some sort of politics @ any given time.
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SPC Stewart Smith
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What? Of course they are service members. It's not a matter of opinion. They put in more time and work than 99% of the other military service members.
It almost seems like you have a chip on your shoulder. Did something happen? Do you have a negative attitude? Am I just misinterpreting things?
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Maybe it’s a revolution?

Specialists of the world, unite! You have nothing to lose but your chains!
SPC Stewart Smith
SPC Stewart Smith
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SFC Thomas Foreman - We have no choice but to take control of all the military as we are the only ones who can truly run it.
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SPC Stewart Smith

*glares in NCO*
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Sgt Field Radio Operator
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I disagree. All Generals and Admirals deserve the respect earned by their rank and servicemembers recognize this. I would have like to see the reaction if someone had called Lt. Gen. Lewis "Chesty" Puller a politician.

https://www.military.com/marine-corps/5-reasons-why-chesty-puller-marine-corps-legend.html
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Sgt Field Radio Operator
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SSG(P) (Join to see) - Most if not all members of the military consider Generals and Admirals to be service members.
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SSG(P) (Join to see) kid, you’re literally and figuratively punching above your pay grade. You don’t even know what they do but you’re damn sure they aren’t doing it according some nebulous standard of soldiery that you’ve outlined in DA-PAM out yo damn mind
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MSG (Anonymous) perhaps...but what is the calling of the NCO if not to rescue the junior enlisted man from himself?
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MSG (Anonymous) yeah but let’s have him learn by telling a company grade officer he’s useless before we turn him loose on the GO’s
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SSG Intelligence Analyst
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I believe that your oath states you will obey the orders of the officers appointed over you. And unless something has changed drastically in the last minute, a General is still and officer.
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CPL Joseph Elinger
CPL Joseph Elinger
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& in a very REAL sense, so is The Commander in Chief.
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SPC Nancy Greene
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I have various opinions. While on Active Duty, the high ranking Officers I encountered were tow Generals and they were MOT politicians. The CH in Germany was ‘Psychotic’ based upon his orders caused the death of six Soldiers in 1986-87! That being said; working as a Civilian (post Active Duty), the CH and several other Generals I worked with and socialized with were NOT politicians! They demonstrated genuine concern and care for the Marines under their Command. However; after hearing testimony’ at the so-called’ impeachment hearings, Those Officers struck me as ignorant and disrespectful political pawns! Just MY two cents!
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SPC Stewart Smith I was the capo dei capi when I was in the mafia
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SGT (Join to see)
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‘Capo dei capi’. Comment of the day! Additionally, SPC V wrote, “.. Minus a very few generals and admirals”.
Out of curiosity, who does he consider those flag grades to be exception to policy?
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SGT (Join to see) I’m not even eyetallyun
CPL Joseph Elinger
CPL Joseph Elinger
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It takes ALL kinds to make a world.
Show me 1 Brigade devoid of atleast 1 asshole.
Let's put it to a secret ballot!
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