Posted on Jun 29, 2016
Do you think NCO leadership is the same as it was 10-15 years ago?
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No NCO's are now days are nothing but under pay baby sitters... With the PC Army you can't hurt someone feel's.... God help use all
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No I don't I feel that that the NCO traditional leadership has not only lost MANY of the great traditions over the past 2 decades! Not only that but training seems to be at a lower standard now. When I speak of traditions, one in specific I speak of is the Quiet Professionals code. That has always been a time honored tradition. But back during Desert Storm CNN had a news crew on the beach waiting at the insertion site of a SEAL TEAM causing a complete scrub of a mission and jeopardizing the lives of all of those men not to mention airing the event live on tv! Then we have men who served write books about what they did while in service and had movies made about actual ops. Now I am patriotic and I mourn the loss of a fallen brother and send prayers for his family. But back in the day, the number of NSW were classified as were the number of personnel. I am pretty sure it was the same with the other SpecOps branches as the government didn't like to give out information like that.
Now from what I read and heard from some frogs, you can go through a pre fitness program to prepare you for what you are going to go through to make it into the elite units. I know there was some talk about whether that was a good thing or not because the old ways actually (per frogs) "weeded out those who couldn't normally make it." "And only keep the best of the group." Now on the other side of the coin, I can see how additional conditioning could enhance one's chances to achieve their goal and their dreams. And if they are willing to put forth the work, then no harm no foul. They still completed the same training plus some extra conditioning to ensure they could cut the muster! Thus it is a win win. The military receives more SoecOp personnel and that. Individual is allowed to live out their dream. But what happened to the non disclosure agreements that the government had all military personnel sign? I know I had to sign a goatscrew of paper work about never discussing this or that, etc..... When I was finally discharged. You would have thought J Edgar Hoover himself was going to check in on you to make sure that you didn't say anything! Plus now they are even talking about hiring civilians as CPO's and CO's! I mean why not allow foreign nationals to join military intelligence while we are at it! ( sorry I still have to chuckle at that contradiction of words used together - military intelligence ) hopefully they got better than way back in the 60's!
Time, Honor and Tradition these 3 things can NEVER be replaced nor forgotten. 1st you have to do your time and work your way up the ranks, to be a good leader you must be an honorable man or woman and tradition - the traditions of each branch of the military is extremely important! It serves as a reminder of what that branch stands for, what makes that branch what it is, and why you chose that branch to fight and serve your for! These things must not be lost my brothers and sisters in arms lest the very values of who those who served before you are dishonored and the very flag which is raised and lowered every day, just be thrown to the ground cast away as a useless relic.
Stay strong! God Bless America and God Bless Our Troops!
Now from what I read and heard from some frogs, you can go through a pre fitness program to prepare you for what you are going to go through to make it into the elite units. I know there was some talk about whether that was a good thing or not because the old ways actually (per frogs) "weeded out those who couldn't normally make it." "And only keep the best of the group." Now on the other side of the coin, I can see how additional conditioning could enhance one's chances to achieve their goal and their dreams. And if they are willing to put forth the work, then no harm no foul. They still completed the same training plus some extra conditioning to ensure they could cut the muster! Thus it is a win win. The military receives more SoecOp personnel and that. Individual is allowed to live out their dream. But what happened to the non disclosure agreements that the government had all military personnel sign? I know I had to sign a goatscrew of paper work about never discussing this or that, etc..... When I was finally discharged. You would have thought J Edgar Hoover himself was going to check in on you to make sure that you didn't say anything! Plus now they are even talking about hiring civilians as CPO's and CO's! I mean why not allow foreign nationals to join military intelligence while we are at it! ( sorry I still have to chuckle at that contradiction of words used together - military intelligence ) hopefully they got better than way back in the 60's!
Time, Honor and Tradition these 3 things can NEVER be replaced nor forgotten. 1st you have to do your time and work your way up the ranks, to be a good leader you must be an honorable man or woman and tradition - the traditions of each branch of the military is extremely important! It serves as a reminder of what that branch stands for, what makes that branch what it is, and why you chose that branch to fight and serve your for! These things must not be lost my brothers and sisters in arms lest the very values of who those who served before you are dishonored and the very flag which is raised and lowered every day, just be thrown to the ground cast away as a useless relic.
Stay strong! God Bless America and God Bless Our Troops!
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I think we have much more responsibility to and for our soldiers now. We have more resources and training available to us.
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Hands have been so tied and the PC environment has so corroded the soldier of today it's pathetic. I can recall going to parade rest for specialists, now days you have privates disrespecting NCOs and aren't held to standard... It's a disgrace what "we've" devolved to! I miss what the military was compared to what it now is. Retirement came at a good time.
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Absolutely not. I have heard how much leadership has changed. I recently spoke to a few NCOs recently returned from Afghanistan. I spoke with them about the leadership schools and their teachings. To me, it sounded as if they were being groomed to lead a corporation and not combat leaders. What happened to the old core values? I went to local unit and looked at the new manuals and ARs. Wow, what a difference. 22-100 and 22-101 are not really existent anymore. As NCOs, are we combat leaders or business men? What we train for and train out soldiers for is combat. Be, Know, Do. I guess what I see in my point of view, we are weak, very weak. NCOs are the back bone, get one.
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Mind you my 25 years of service ended in 1997, so I have been out a while, but I knew what was going on while my daughter was in for 20, my youngest son now with 14 years in, and my granddaughter now in AIT. I have listened and observed. I watch the officers, NCOs, and soldiers in and around the military basis here in Texas. I know the generation before me when looking at the time when I was in said "Lord help us" when talking about my generation in the military. I caught myself saying it too now and then. Here is what I know and that is our military is a product of our society. Our military changes as the people we bring in start putting in their ways as they were raised. We have military traditions in every branch of the service that are to be passed down and observed, but they are only as good as those who carry the torch.
No, leadership is not the same as it was 10, 15 years ago and nor should it be as it should always be improving and evolving to keep pace with our changing world. Where it should not change is in Accountability, Appearance, Maintenance, and Training. These areas if taken care of will get any NCO through any trials they may face. I have been challenged many times with those areas and I always challenge people to pick and area and tell me what would not fit. One said their 201 file. I said that fits into maintenance, keeping it up to date, accurate, and current. It is also a matter of training that the individual soldier knows what to look for and the junior leaders to also know what to look for, so they can take care of their soldiers is just one example.
What I have learned is that leaders need to look at the service as a way of life, not merely a job. When a soldier comes to an NCO at 18:30 hours and ask can I talk to you sergeant and the NCO says come see me tomorrow, without asking what is the matter, we have lost. That soldier may have come with an issue which may save or change someone life.
To me the NCO is and will always be the backbone of the military and our fighting forces either succeed or fail based upon the kind of leadership they have. There are so many areas that I can go into, but officers and NCOs need to understand their lanes. There are two kinds of leaders you can learn form good and bad leaders. The good leaders show you what to do, and the bad leaders show you what not to do!
No, leadership is not the same as it was 10, 15 years ago and nor should it be as it should always be improving and evolving to keep pace with our changing world. Where it should not change is in Accountability, Appearance, Maintenance, and Training. These areas if taken care of will get any NCO through any trials they may face. I have been challenged many times with those areas and I always challenge people to pick and area and tell me what would not fit. One said their 201 file. I said that fits into maintenance, keeping it up to date, accurate, and current. It is also a matter of training that the individual soldier knows what to look for and the junior leaders to also know what to look for, so they can take care of their soldiers is just one example.
What I have learned is that leaders need to look at the service as a way of life, not merely a job. When a soldier comes to an NCO at 18:30 hours and ask can I talk to you sergeant and the NCO says come see me tomorrow, without asking what is the matter, we have lost. That soldier may have come with an issue which may save or change someone life.
To me the NCO is and will always be the backbone of the military and our fighting forces either succeed or fail based upon the kind of leadership they have. There are so many areas that I can go into, but officers and NCOs need to understand their lanes. There are two kinds of leaders you can learn form good and bad leaders. The good leaders show you what to do, and the bad leaders show you what not to do!
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SGM Nathan Thomas
There is a good book which I was given in 1990, called "Company Command, the bottomline" by John G. Meyer, Jr. which is a good read! You NCOs read chapter 3, "You and Your First Sergeant". "The Company Commander commands the unit; the First Sergeant runs the unit".
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SFC James Simpson
Oh Yes! I read the book and it was outstanding at the time. Very relevent reading there my frienf.
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I don't believe the issue is Leadership, today's NCO's and Officers are sharper than ever. The problem is rules and regulations always changing even when something is still working and not broke. Think about all of the things now in place that wouldn't have happened 15 or more years ago, politics is the major problems why our military Leadership is what it is today.
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SGM Nathan Thomas
Politics has always been there. Our Commander n Chief is a political civilian. We have big business that gets involved in many cases where the national interests comes into play as well, even though many of us would like to think otherwise. If sharper means more intelligent, then I am with you. What is intelligence if one does not have common sense though? Rules and regulations may have to change to be relevant with the times. I am not saying all changes are good as it has to be tempered with common sense. Our military leaders; and I am talking, all have to leave their political thoughts at the door before entering into formation as there is no place for it. We have a mission to support and defend. A unit cannot afford to go into a conflict politically divided.
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I cannot speak for the Army/Air Force/Marine Corp/USCG, being retired Navy, but I can speak concerning the Navy. Over the years I have definitely seen a loss in leadership skills and in what it is perceived the Chief Petty Officer can, can't and won't do. The Officer community in my view spends entirely too much time trying to do the Chief's job - without the traditional Chief's skills - and the Chiefs these days seem a little too concerned with career and not quite concerned with their traditional role.
When I retired there was a tacit agreement between the Wardroom and the Goat Locker, the Wardroom promulgates targets and the Goat Locker gets it done - however it needs to get done. Things got complicated when one had to deal with a difficult young personality within the framework of EMI guidelines and such but a Chief with imagination could find ways to make the EMI both educational and - ahem - motivating. A Chief couldn't take away a challenged sailor's liberty, but he could discover that a task needed to be done that very evening and only the challenged sailor's skill set would do... In my day the Skipper understood this and let his Argus eye rest on other things, while his ears failed to hear the wailing of the trainee in the lazarette.
When the Wardroom sticks to doing it's job and the Goat Locker takes care of the deck plates the Navy wins, when the two try to swap and intermingle jobs everyone looses. I suspect the other services have the same issues... I have often thought that the Navy ought to offer us old retired duffers a chance to come back for two weeks every year and take a short cruise in the Goat Locker as a sort of refresher course on "Old Navy" Leadership skills...
When I retired there was a tacit agreement between the Wardroom and the Goat Locker, the Wardroom promulgates targets and the Goat Locker gets it done - however it needs to get done. Things got complicated when one had to deal with a difficult young personality within the framework of EMI guidelines and such but a Chief with imagination could find ways to make the EMI both educational and - ahem - motivating. A Chief couldn't take away a challenged sailor's liberty, but he could discover that a task needed to be done that very evening and only the challenged sailor's skill set would do... In my day the Skipper understood this and let his Argus eye rest on other things, while his ears failed to hear the wailing of the trainee in the lazarette.
When the Wardroom sticks to doing it's job and the Goat Locker takes care of the deck plates the Navy wins, when the two try to swap and intermingle jobs everyone looses. I suspect the other services have the same issues... I have often thought that the Navy ought to offer us old retired duffers a chance to come back for two weeks every year and take a short cruise in the Goat Locker as a sort of refresher course on "Old Navy" Leadership skills...
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Today's NCO'S do have power we had 15 years . They always have look over there back if the make a,decision. And sometimes the chain of command make it worst by not standing behind them.
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