Posted on May 14, 2019
Do you think that an all volunteer force is sustainable in the future?
5.75K
407
113
60
60
0
Americans serving in the military are less than one percent of the population. 21% of those serving are the children of military veterans; only 10% have parents who never served. Do we have a civilian-military divide? Thoughts?
Posted in these groups: 
Recruiting
Recruiting
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 49
4
4
0
The problem has been created exacerbated by the idea we need supermen/women as our service members. Other than that it’s purely the comfort of home while attending institutions of higher learning in preparation for bigger salaries. Where I live, most respect our military.
(4)
(0)
4
4
0
Not only do I think it's sustainable... I think it may become even more difficult to volunteer within a few years.
Indications are that we're in a post-conventional warfare era; information technology has become a strategic focus, the cost of manpower is skyrocketing, and special operations forces are arguably becoming the "standard" for direct action. I think we'll see widespread down-sizing in non-critical functions, tighter budgets, and increased physical/intellectual demands placed on new accessions.
If I put my tin foil hat on REAL tight... I expect genetic manipulation/cloning within two decades as a suggested means to fill the ranks.
Indications are that we're in a post-conventional warfare era; information technology has become a strategic focus, the cost of manpower is skyrocketing, and special operations forces are arguably becoming the "standard" for direct action. I think we'll see widespread down-sizing in non-critical functions, tighter budgets, and increased physical/intellectual demands placed on new accessions.
If I put my tin foil hat on REAL tight... I expect genetic manipulation/cloning within two decades as a suggested means to fill the ranks.
(4)
(0)
SP5 Jeannie Carle
Those thing have been mentioned for years - but most don't take it seriously. I don't know about that soon, Sir, but then things are moving much more quickly nowdays.
(0)
(0)
LCDR Joshua Gillespie
Good points. Serving between the late '90s and early-mid '00s, it seemed to me that everything was changing. Naturally, that's to be expected during a protracted counterinsurgency operation... but I believe it's permeated our strategic focus as well. Working in parallel, are the economic drivers that determine whether or not defense spending will favor development of high-value technologies, or increases in proven assets. I think we've seen that the long-range plans are moving towards the former. Finally, there's the question of what core competencies will be in need on tomorrow's battlefields? I don't think we're going up against massed forces anytime soon (though that's always a possibility we should consider)... but any developing conflict will include cyber warfare and unconventional warfare. Both demand critical skill sets we simply can't feed from a "draft".
In short, it may be sometime before we start "growing" our forces as opposed to "recruiting" them... but I believe we're already well into a phase of increasing pipeline input, while reducing the size of the throughput.
In short, it may be sometime before we start "growing" our forces as opposed to "recruiting" them... but I believe we're already well into a phase of increasing pipeline input, while reducing the size of the throughput.
(0)
(0)
4
4
0
SPC Mike Lake SPC Kevin Ford COL David Turk (Join to see) Brig Gen Jim Jaeger SGT Rick Colburn PO3 Lynn Spalding Col Carl Whicker SPC Paul C. MAJ (Join to see) LTC Jeff Shearer Sgt Wayne Wood SGT Randal Groover CMSgt Randy Beck CPO Nate S. MCPO Roger Collins LTC (Join to see) MSgt Robert "Rock" Aldi SSgt Terry P. MGySgt (Join to see)
(4)
(0)
3
3
0
Yes, we have a major problem maintaining the volunteer army into the future. I believe we will need some form of universal service..but not the draft! Our country was built on the citizen soldier militiaman concept. People need to serve to protect our freedoms. But there are many ways to serve. If a young adult served two years after High school in mandatory service to our country we could keep the volunteer army concept by just sweetening the deal. Have all young men and women choose between a large list of service to country organizations like the Armed Forces, Fire, Rescue, Police, Red Cross, FEMA, volunteer corps, Applachian corps, Peace Corps, Department of social service etc.... But if they choose to pick one of the five armed services, they would also get free college through the GI Bill... such a proposition would make the armed services the premier service organization. It would also require every Amercian, over time, to give some form of service to their country for the freedoms we all enjoy.
(3)
(0)
3
3
0
Col Brown, I hate to answer a question with a question, but in 1973, when the end of the draft was announced, did you really believe it was ended?
True, the first national draft was for the Civil War, but prior to that the colonies, and then the states had laws requiring able bodied men be part of the state militia, which was then called upon to serve as necessary for establishment and then protection of the states and the union.
For WWI, an all volunteer force was initially attempted, but when that failed, men were drafted.
The difference between the draft as we remember it, and the traditional draft or conscription was that our draft was declared in 1940 when we were not (yet) engaged in a war but it continued through WWII, Korea, the Cold War (when the belief the communists were going to be rushing over our shores was real), and then Viet Nam. Although you look much to young to remember 1973, we were barely recovering from the insurrections and draft protests of the 60s, Watergate, the assassinations and many other situations that made the state of the union quite tenuous. The declaration that the draft was ended was only one of the concessions made to attempt to bring some semblance of order back to our nation.
At the peak of the Afghan and Iraq wars we had approximately 180-190,000 US armed forces personnel in those theaters, not even half of the over 500,000 we had committed during Vietnam at its highest level. But we had to call up our reserve forces to do that.
Since WWI ended all wars and the League of Nations assured that premise, we reduced our armed forces to a skeletal state. When the world situation made it obvious to all but the most rigid isolationists that WWII was on the horizon, we instituted a peacetime draft. It seems there has been periodic discussions of whether women should be required to enroll in our still existing draft register. Many believe the existence of nuclear weapons makes another widespread war impossible, but I have faith that humankind, just as it has in the past, will somehow imagine another method of warfare that doesn't depend upon general use of the nucs. When we figure that war out, we'll react with a draft to provide the manpower necessary to kill each other on a mass scale.
True, the first national draft was for the Civil War, but prior to that the colonies, and then the states had laws requiring able bodied men be part of the state militia, which was then called upon to serve as necessary for establishment and then protection of the states and the union.
For WWI, an all volunteer force was initially attempted, but when that failed, men were drafted.
The difference between the draft as we remember it, and the traditional draft or conscription was that our draft was declared in 1940 when we were not (yet) engaged in a war but it continued through WWII, Korea, the Cold War (when the belief the communists were going to be rushing over our shores was real), and then Viet Nam. Although you look much to young to remember 1973, we were barely recovering from the insurrections and draft protests of the 60s, Watergate, the assassinations and many other situations that made the state of the union quite tenuous. The declaration that the draft was ended was only one of the concessions made to attempt to bring some semblance of order back to our nation.
At the peak of the Afghan and Iraq wars we had approximately 180-190,000 US armed forces personnel in those theaters, not even half of the over 500,000 we had committed during Vietnam at its highest level. But we had to call up our reserve forces to do that.
Since WWI ended all wars and the League of Nations assured that premise, we reduced our armed forces to a skeletal state. When the world situation made it obvious to all but the most rigid isolationists that WWII was on the horizon, we instituted a peacetime draft. It seems there has been periodic discussions of whether women should be required to enroll in our still existing draft register. Many believe the existence of nuclear weapons makes another widespread war impossible, but I have faith that humankind, just as it has in the past, will somehow imagine another method of warfare that doesn't depend upon general use of the nucs. When we figure that war out, we'll react with a draft to provide the manpower necessary to kill each other on a mass scale.
(3)
(0)
3
3
0
Can we sustain it sure. Make the benefits worth the while to young people and they will still join. BUT, do I think we should have just an all volunteer military, NO. Every young citizen should be required to register for the draft and provide one or two years benefit to the country.
(3)
(0)
3
3
0
Sustainable...yes. Effective.... Here in lies the question. Our Armed Forces must remain first and foremost lethal. Ready to respond rapidly to threat. Well trained and well equipped, with the overwhelming mindset that service in the Armed Forces is about defence of the nation. All the other things, the perks so to speak, that come with service are secondary to the overall mission, defence of the nation. When we start down the path of making serving, "just another job", then we lose, and lose big.
In regard to the Civilian/Military divide... While on recruiting duty I can recall speaking to parents, who while being perfectly polite, would say things like, "Oh, I think what you people do is so important, but my son/daughter is too smart to be in the Marine Corps." Most of these parents had never served, and take there few of military service from movies or t.v.
Sadly I don't think there is an easy fix to change this mind set, as I think it has been present for too many years. Everyone thinks we're great, but not so much so they would consider service a profession for their son/daughter.
My response to them is...It is a profession. One requiring intelligence, hard-work, and dedication. One that requires a 24 year Cpl to make life and death decisions.
In regard to the Civilian/Military divide... While on recruiting duty I can recall speaking to parents, who while being perfectly polite, would say things like, "Oh, I think what you people do is so important, but my son/daughter is too smart to be in the Marine Corps." Most of these parents had never served, and take there few of military service from movies or t.v.
Sadly I don't think there is an easy fix to change this mind set, as I think it has been present for too many years. Everyone thinks we're great, but not so much so they would consider service a profession for their son/daughter.
My response to them is...It is a profession. One requiring intelligence, hard-work, and dedication. One that requires a 24 year Cpl to make life and death decisions.
(3)
(0)
GySgt Charles O'Connell
SSgt GG-15 RET Jim Lint - True! Everybody wants safety and security, our enemies defeated, but only if no one gets hurt. This idea that there are "good wars", where did that come from? All wars are bad, but necessary, and people get hurt. It's either, defend the nation and society, with all the rights and freedoms we enjoy, or let it fall out of a nonsensical belief that we defeat our enemies through the power of positive thought.
(1)
(0)
SSgt GG-15 RET Jim Lint
GySgt Charles O'Connell - WWII we won. We firebombed Dresden. There were ball bearing factories there. It was a military target. Also Ammo factories.
(1)
(0)
GySgt Charles O'Connell
SSgt GG-15 RET Jim Lint - True we won WWII. We committed ourselves wholly to the conflict, our industry, our economy, our best and brightest. All in the effort to defeat an enemy, an enemy undefeated would eventually threaten our way of life, destroying the freedoms we so enjoy.
Your on target. In WWII strategic decisions had to be made, ones that would destroy the AXIS's means and will to resist, for this is the end goal in war.
We are faced with a different enemy/s. But one whose desired purpose is the same, the destruction of our society. Our strategy to defeat them may call for different tactics, but, but, when we are called into armed conflict we must bring to bear that same resolve that brought about the defeat of the AXIS powers.
Your on target. In WWII strategic decisions had to be made, ones that would destroy the AXIS's means and will to resist, for this is the end goal in war.
We are faced with a different enemy/s. But one whose desired purpose is the same, the destruction of our society. Our strategy to defeat them may call for different tactics, but, but, when we are called into armed conflict we must bring to bear that same resolve that brought about the defeat of the AXIS powers.
(0)
(0)
3
3
0
I absolutely think a volunteer force is sustainable in the future. If it doesn't, I think the most probable cause isn't a lack of patriotism but rather because politicians keep sending our military into undeclared and unwinnable conflicts that have no end in sight. I don't think giving politicians the power to conscript young people to fight in these types of conflicts is the answer.
(3)
(0)
3
3
0
It runs in cycles... when jobs are plentiful, and the pay is there, some don’t stay in... others do to get the educational bennies.
(3)
(0)
SP5 Jeannie Carle
I, for one, wasn't looking at the educational perks - I was looking at an honest to God "career" and BADLY wanted to stay 20 - or more. Self confidence in my ability to do my job and self esteem - and a rock-solid "reason for being".
(1)
(0)
SSgt Boyd Herrst
I was looking at the AF from a career angle and educational angle. I joined AF Ready Reserve first...in ‘June -
‘70. I played the brochure advert about it being a “part-time job” They had to check some technicalities ... my being 17 something about war and availability to go overseas. [s’thing to do with our allies and using their bases..] It shouldn’t be a prob... you always have a back-up . Just TDY me to a Wing that hasn’t deployed this year. I’d be 18 in ‘71. Until then... I’d TDY to a Wing stateside until then.. they bought into that.. even if they Have to shuffle me around... so in summer of ‘70 I went to BMT in Texas.. while there I took the SKT for a 3 level as Cook. (I’d worked[apprenticed] 3 years under my Gr. Aunt who was a Certified/degree’d Chef with many years experience{35 yrs}. The Reserves got a good deal with me having that training.. true the Military has their way of training.. for me it was additional, some repetitive.. a lot of things in life are repetitive. I also had completed the AFJROTC bAse Cadet program earning the 1st Level in the falcon Award.. and that made it possible to earn A1C (E3).
SP5 Jeannie Carle
‘70. I played the brochure advert about it being a “part-time job” They had to check some technicalities ... my being 17 something about war and availability to go overseas. [s’thing to do with our allies and using their bases..] It shouldn’t be a prob... you always have a back-up . Just TDY me to a Wing that hasn’t deployed this year. I’d be 18 in ‘71. Until then... I’d TDY to a Wing stateside until then.. they bought into that.. even if they Have to shuffle me around... so in summer of ‘70 I went to BMT in Texas.. while there I took the SKT for a 3 level as Cook. (I’d worked[apprenticed] 3 years under my Gr. Aunt who was a Certified/degree’d Chef with many years experience{35 yrs}. The Reserves got a good deal with me having that training.. true the Military has their way of training.. for me it was additional, some repetitive.. a lot of things in life are repetitive. I also had completed the AFJROTC bAse Cadet program earning the 1st Level in the falcon Award.. and that made it possible to earn A1C (E3).
SP5 Jeannie Carle
(1)
(0)
SSgt Boyd Herrst
part II- I returned home after BMT and went to drills and picked up extras that others senior in TIS turned down. Busted butt & earned the 5 level in minimal time(5 months). In Reserves that is very good.. my advantage was having a Sqdn Training Sgt.(E-6) that lived only a few blocks over from me. Go over to her place and do my volume tests. She was always going to the base and sending them in via special military mail service. When she had to go there anyway.. One of the advantages I had in having the previous apprentice time is not having to wait to do certain knife skill jobs while others still did basic menial labor jobs like panning frozen veg’s and cutting desserts for dinner. Scrubbing kettles and floors.. and equipment.. I still did some but not as much .. We had a DH super who liked using fresh when possible .. it took a lot of extra prep.. and we didn’t always have the workers, Civilian and military to do the extra prep because congress cut allowed personnel budget; Civilian hours and Reserve manpower.. and one might ask why I wasn’t cut.. attrition .. those that retired or didn’t re-up were not replaced
I had made it in before some fiscal ‘71 cutbacks were announced..
Items like carrots were easy... if providing all your own labor; cut that end just behind the stem .. do a couple dozen.. or so.. put that flat end on the board and hold by the tip(you can cut them tips too). Go up and down and turn the carrot. There are two blades facing each other. It didn’t take long to do them. The best potatoes were the big russets. Make sure their pretty clean. Hot water not gonna hurt them.. brush that dirt right off .. our civ Kps did that part.. I cut the two ends off them oval potatoes.. I turned them around same as I did carrots and work that peeler .. a little more bumpy and it takes a little longer ...
(SP5 Jeannie Carle)
I had made it in before some fiscal ‘71 cutbacks were announced..
Items like carrots were easy... if providing all your own labor; cut that end just behind the stem .. do a couple dozen.. or so.. put that flat end on the board and hold by the tip(you can cut them tips too). Go up and down and turn the carrot. There are two blades facing each other. It didn’t take long to do them. The best potatoes were the big russets. Make sure their pretty clean. Hot water not gonna hurt them.. brush that dirt right off .. our civ Kps did that part.. I cut the two ends off them oval potatoes.. I turned them around same as I did carrots and work that peeler .. a little more bumpy and it takes a little longer ...
(SP5 Jeannie Carle)
(1)
(0)
2
2
0
Make every branch of service tax free after graduating AIT. You will have too many people signing up. Make BT hard as hell with the ability to peer people out. Make training realistic like it was in the mid 90’s. Fail an APFT, you’re gone. Fail height and weight, see ya. DUI or fail a urinalysis, bye bye. Get rid of the PC mindset and prepare those coming in for the harsh realities of combat. No more social experiments using the military as the test bed. An all volunteer force can work with the right mindset and tools in place.
(2)
(0)
Read This Next
Continue with Facebook 
Continue with Google