Posted on Sep 11, 2015
Do you think the Army denied a soldier the MOH because he was a prior service Marine?
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Was this prior service (Marine) Soldier unjustly denied the Medal of Honor by the Army , despite apparently meeting the criteria for the MOH, and having the recommendation/endorsements for the MOH by his chain of command up through the Theater Commander, now currently serving Commandant of the Marine Corps (Incoming Chair of the Joint Chiefs) General Joseph Dunford. The Army downgraded his award to the Silver Star?
http://www.navytimes.com/story/military/pentagon/2015/09/10/moh-downgrade/72019744/
COL Mikel Burroughs,CPT Chris Lautner ,MSG Brad Sand, SFC Keith Swanson, Gyn Sgt Wayne A. Ekblad, MAJ Yinon Weiss, Sgt Robert Jones
http://www.navytimes.com/story/military/pentagon/2015/09/10/moh-downgrade/72019744/
COL Mikel Burroughs,CPT Chris Lautner ,MSG Brad Sand, SFC Keith Swanson, Gyn Sgt Wayne A. Ekblad, MAJ Yinon Weiss, Sgt Robert Jones
Medal of Honor
Prior Service
Inspector General
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 17
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The leading factors thus far do include his prior service as "a" factor. However, the larger two I have seen in reputable sources are the criminal investigation that was ongoing (he was cleared) and his blunt, outspoken manner.
That said, the award review process is broken and far too often we are seeing soldiers denied valor medals for actions that were not connected to their act of valor.
I would like to see this decision overturned.
That said, the award review process is broken and far too often we are seeing soldiers denied valor medals for actions that were not connected to their act of valor.
I would like to see this decision overturned.
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Sgt Pedro Jauregui
It is truly broken, because prior service shouldn't be a factor at all and being outspoken is never bad when your standing up for your troops.
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Sgt Matt Koeneman
Maj. Amen it's broken. I've seen Marines denied their Combat Action because the fire fight didn't last long enough, and I've seen their Purple Hearts denied because they were treated on the spot and not evacuated. Reasoning was they weren't technically a casualty.
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Cpl Christopher Bishop
I find it ironic that the Army takes former Marines, as a value added thing, over an untrained 18 year old...And then ends up punishing them for the very prior service they wanted to wrap in a new uniform in the first place.
It also get me thinking about how prior service members apparently need "unit commander's consent" to wear awards issued to them during their prior service. Why would any unit commander ever object to it? The only real answers I've heard are "so their peers in the new branch won't feel bad about having less". Which I think is crap...they couldda gone and done the same things, and opted not to.
(Though I didn't mean to change the subject here).
Semper Fi
It also get me thinking about how prior service members apparently need "unit commander's consent" to wear awards issued to them during their prior service. Why would any unit commander ever object to it? The only real answers I've heard are "so their peers in the new branch won't feel bad about having less". Which I think is crap...they couldda gone and done the same things, and opted not to.
(Though I didn't mean to change the subject here).
Semper Fi
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I highly doubt it. There are a whole lot of politics that go into MOH decisions but ai severely doubt that the Army didn't award it because he was a prior Marine. If that does turn out to be the case it will probably be corrected, but I am more along the thinking that it didn't quite meet the cutoff, or was ambiguous, which happens a lot.
I don't think any of our services are opposed to any of our other services. We may joke at each other's expenses, but we are all in the fight together and I haven't experienced anything that would make me think this would happen.
I don't think any of our services are opposed to any of our other services. We may joke at each other's expenses, but we are all in the fight together and I haven't experienced anything that would make me think this would happen.
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Wow... This gets into some seriously complex issues.
First, what are the "lines in the sand" for the major valor awards. Specifically the MoH, the Crosses, and the Silver Star?
Second, should there be political factors introduced when awarding the major valor awards?
Third, in regards to "should there be," if no, is that the actual reality?
Let's try to tackle these one by one. I've always looked at the MoH as, to put it bluntly "grenade hoppers." When people blindly jump into the breach to save their comrades, without regard for their own safety. That doesn't mean they are sacrificing their life, but it does mean they were willing to. They were at a point where they didn't even think of it. They likely weren't even conscious of it. The best comparison I have ever come up with is the Greek Heroes. These are the men of Legends.
Now, as for the political factors... I don't think anyone, among us, believes there should be any political influence when it regards to the singular acts that earned these heroes the recognition these medals represent. However it's a bureaucratic process, which can quickly turn political, especially in larger organizations.
When we get into the "top 3" we temper what should, with what is. So when you have someone even nominated for these awards, the influence is going to get insane. I recall an article that was shared on Memorial Day, regarding Gen Kelly (USMC) and the truck bomb, and two of our men and the Navy Cross.
http://articles.latimes.com/2008/dec/29/nation/na-heroes29
He KNEW that to get them the proper recognition, he had to get his Stars involved. He had to get "politically involved."
So.. Do I think the soldier in question was denied the MoH because he was previously in the USMC? Hard question. Do I think it may have been a contributing factor... would not surprise me in the least, especially when you add in the other "factors" like blunt talk, and a CID investigation (cleared).
Like it or not, the political monster is at work, and the Awards Branch is more scared of getting this wrong, than getting it right.
First, what are the "lines in the sand" for the major valor awards. Specifically the MoH, the Crosses, and the Silver Star?
Second, should there be political factors introduced when awarding the major valor awards?
Third, in regards to "should there be," if no, is that the actual reality?
Let's try to tackle these one by one. I've always looked at the MoH as, to put it bluntly "grenade hoppers." When people blindly jump into the breach to save their comrades, without regard for their own safety. That doesn't mean they are sacrificing their life, but it does mean they were willing to. They were at a point where they didn't even think of it. They likely weren't even conscious of it. The best comparison I have ever come up with is the Greek Heroes. These are the men of Legends.
Now, as for the political factors... I don't think anyone, among us, believes there should be any political influence when it regards to the singular acts that earned these heroes the recognition these medals represent. However it's a bureaucratic process, which can quickly turn political, especially in larger organizations.
When we get into the "top 3" we temper what should, with what is. So when you have someone even nominated for these awards, the influence is going to get insane. I recall an article that was shared on Memorial Day, regarding Gen Kelly (USMC) and the truck bomb, and two of our men and the Navy Cross.
http://articles.latimes.com/2008/dec/29/nation/na-heroes29
He KNEW that to get them the proper recognition, he had to get his Stars involved. He had to get "politically involved."
So.. Do I think the soldier in question was denied the MoH because he was previously in the USMC? Hard question. Do I think it may have been a contributing factor... would not surprise me in the least, especially when you add in the other "factors" like blunt talk, and a CID investigation (cleared).
Like it or not, the political monster is at work, and the Awards Branch is more scared of getting this wrong, than getting it right.
A speeding truck bomb, and a shared act of courage
They had known each other only a few minutes, but they will be linked forever in what Marine brass say is one of the most extraordinary acts of courage and sacrifice in the Iraq war.Cpl. Jonathan...
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