Posted on Feb 6, 2015
Do you think there should be a grace/probation period of time for new Leaders?
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I want to discuss a Leadership topic that I would like to see the community's opinion on.
So, here I am sitting at a desk doing a shift based staff duty, wasting my life before I go to the Army Recruiters Course. While I am wasting my life I do however enjoy watching the human condition. I just saw a young Sergeant who I know just pinned very recently (less than two months ago) and was taking charge of a situation which did not turn out to well and required additional assistance from other NCO’s who squared it away. This very minor incident got me thinking about the first two hours after I was pinned Sergeant. So no s**t there I was, getting pinned Sergeant while I was in Iraq in 2008. Shortly (less than a day) after I was promoted the team I was assigned to was told to pack up and get ready to move to a different FOB located in Southern Iraq called COP Nine directly off of Tampa/Route 1. During the move the Company Command Team decided that impromptu training was required as we had too much “down time” and I was told to do a Human Intelligence Collection Team (HCT) capabilities briefing, right then and there. I did not to do very well and was given the “you an NCO, you should know this” butt chewing. While it is completely true that I should know that simple task and can now do one in my sleep, it did take quite a bit of time to get to that level. I have seen similar incidents play out several different time on the NCO and Officer sides of the house and I would like to see what the community thinks about it. NOTE: If a Marine Leader please replace Sergeant with Corporal.
1. Due to the fact that we promote off of Leadership potential, do you expect a NCO/Officer to get it instantly OR do you give him/her an unwritten period of time to get to that point? If you do how long?
2. There is a program that new recruiter have that allows them to have a period of unrated time for NCOER/OER/FITREP them to learn the recruiting program prior ensuring that they are not negatively rated for learning a completely new program. Do you think this same period of time should be applied to newly “minted” NCOs and Officers?
So, here I am sitting at a desk doing a shift based staff duty, wasting my life before I go to the Army Recruiters Course. While I am wasting my life I do however enjoy watching the human condition. I just saw a young Sergeant who I know just pinned very recently (less than two months ago) and was taking charge of a situation which did not turn out to well and required additional assistance from other NCO’s who squared it away. This very minor incident got me thinking about the first two hours after I was pinned Sergeant. So no s**t there I was, getting pinned Sergeant while I was in Iraq in 2008. Shortly (less than a day) after I was promoted the team I was assigned to was told to pack up and get ready to move to a different FOB located in Southern Iraq called COP Nine directly off of Tampa/Route 1. During the move the Company Command Team decided that impromptu training was required as we had too much “down time” and I was told to do a Human Intelligence Collection Team (HCT) capabilities briefing, right then and there. I did not to do very well and was given the “you an NCO, you should know this” butt chewing. While it is completely true that I should know that simple task and can now do one in my sleep, it did take quite a bit of time to get to that level. I have seen similar incidents play out several different time on the NCO and Officer sides of the house and I would like to see what the community thinks about it. NOTE: If a Marine Leader please replace Sergeant with Corporal.
1. Due to the fact that we promote off of Leadership potential, do you expect a NCO/Officer to get it instantly OR do you give him/her an unwritten period of time to get to that point? If you do how long?
2. There is a program that new recruiter have that allows them to have a period of unrated time for NCOER/OER/FITREP them to learn the recruiting program prior ensuring that they are not negatively rated for learning a completely new program. Do you think this same period of time should be applied to newly “minted” NCOs and Officers?
Leadership
Leadership Development
Mentorship
Professional Development
Edited 10 y ago
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 16
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This is a good post and an excellent example of how our Noncommissioned Officer Evaluation Reporting system is over inflated and broken. Chances are you have the basic skills to assume a leadership position or your leadership would have never recommended you for promotion. Obviously you will not be as seasoned as a Sergeant that has been in that position for a couple years.
Your first NCOER should accurately reflect what kind of leader you are, through quarterly counseling you should be shown what your strengths and weaknesses are and what you need to do to get better. Unfortunately we have an Army full of "Among the Best" NCOs at all levels of leadership. If you are receiving three or more excellent blocks, among the best, and 1/1 blocks from your senior rater as a newly promoted NCO (at any rank) you are a miracle of nature.
Asking a newly promoted NCO to conduct an advanced task at their skill level is a good thing. Should you receive an ass chewing because you jacked it up a little, hell no. You should be counseled that you need to work on that particular skill, this gives you an opportunity to correct and improve that skill before your NCOER is due.
Hopefully the new NCOER will be used better than the current one but, I am not holding my breath.
Good post!
Your first NCOER should accurately reflect what kind of leader you are, through quarterly counseling you should be shown what your strengths and weaknesses are and what you need to do to get better. Unfortunately we have an Army full of "Among the Best" NCOs at all levels of leadership. If you are receiving three or more excellent blocks, among the best, and 1/1 blocks from your senior rater as a newly promoted NCO (at any rank) you are a miracle of nature.
Asking a newly promoted NCO to conduct an advanced task at their skill level is a good thing. Should you receive an ass chewing because you jacked it up a little, hell no. You should be counseled that you need to work on that particular skill, this gives you an opportunity to correct and improve that skill before your NCOER is due.
Hopefully the new NCOER will be used better than the current one but, I am not holding my breath.
Good post!
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Dealt with this issue myself back when dinosaurs still roamed the earth, summer of '89, my tank battalion went COHORT. I woke up and conducted PT as SPC Swartz in D/2-77 AR, when I came back for 0900 work call, I was hand walked to B/2-77 AR and suddenly became CPL Swartz. I was now and NCO and literally said to the PSG "How am I supposed to conduct myself now?", his reply "Just act like the SGTs." Well that led me to being a miserable prick when it came to the Soldiers as the SGTs in my PLT where complete asses lol!! I learned over time and with training and experience, how to actually be an NCO and tried to mentor and train my subordinates in a manner that allowed them to learn, make mistakes, correct themselves and mature. As a former recruiter, the TTE program (New Recruiter program) is good if it is properly utilized for every recruiter in USAREC....had it been properly usd in my case, I would have been returned to the field force as I was not cut out to be a recruiter. Alas, they chose to keep me and it ended up being the most miserable 3 years of my entire career and set me back 2-3 years on making SFC. Some subjects, situations we, when young NCOs, are expected to handle right away, some require a more experienced hand and should be handled that way by senior leaders.
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SFC William Swartz Jr
Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS oh it was quite comical until I got a feel for how things should actually be lol!
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This may just be a philosophical difference between Army & Marines.
When you are a Cpl, you are a Sgt in Training. the second you get that 3rd Stripe, you are expected to know everything a Sgt knows, and are henceforth a SSgt in training.
You weren't promoted based on "potential" you were promoted because you have already proved you are capable, and any time you do something that shows you aren't you deserve the counselling.
When you are a Cpl, you are a Sgt in Training. the second you get that 3rd Stripe, you are expected to know everything a Sgt knows, and are henceforth a SSgt in training.
You weren't promoted based on "potential" you were promoted because you have already proved you are capable, and any time you do something that shows you aren't you deserve the counselling.
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Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
I get where you are going with it, and it's a good question. In the Marines we don't have standard boards for NCO ranks (Cpl & Sgt). We are promoted off statistical information (cutting score).
So what can happen is that a very junior Marine can end up getting promoted.
As an example, I pinned on Cpl with 9 months Time in Grade, and less than 2 years in. I was a VERY Junior NCO, in a Grunt BN, with A LOT of Marines who had already been to places like Somalia. My learning curve was steep. This was the result of MOS/Billet allocation.
However, it took me a LONG time to pick up Sgt (almost 3 years), because we had a lot of Lateral movers (people who changed MOS after their initial enlistments). This gave me a lot of time to learn for the next rank. I was VERY senior when I picked up Sgt.
So what can happen is that a very junior Marine can end up getting promoted.
As an example, I pinned on Cpl with 9 months Time in Grade, and less than 2 years in. I was a VERY Junior NCO, in a Grunt BN, with A LOT of Marines who had already been to places like Somalia. My learning curve was steep. This was the result of MOS/Billet allocation.
However, it took me a LONG time to pick up Sgt (almost 3 years), because we had a lot of Lateral movers (people who changed MOS after their initial enlistments). This gave me a lot of time to learn for the next rank. I was VERY senior when I picked up Sgt.
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