Posted on Jul 1, 2015
Do you think there would be chaos and confusion if the military allowed transgender troops?
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I can think of so many improvisions which would need to be made because, experience hasn't been met by anyone yet.
Example1.) If a male enters the military as an 11B let's say, has completed surgery and has to take an APFT do we use the scale for males or females? Who determines when the process is finalized?
I can think of the confusion for Command Sergeants Majors when it comes to Command Climate.
How about Sisters in Arms? Can a female ( that used to be a male) really relate to me and the issues real females have in the Military?
Will there really be a unisex latrine for Transgender's who haven't completed their treatment?
What about SRPs?
What about NCOERs, (confusion at the centralized board)?
Just what about the heterosexuals who are just offended...period!
http://www.stripes.com/news/us/transgender-soldier-back-on-the-front-lines-1.355432
Example1.) If a male enters the military as an 11B let's say, has completed surgery and has to take an APFT do we use the scale for males or females? Who determines when the process is finalized?
I can think of the confusion for Command Sergeants Majors when it comes to Command Climate.
How about Sisters in Arms? Can a female ( that used to be a male) really relate to me and the issues real females have in the Military?
Will there really be a unisex latrine for Transgender's who haven't completed their treatment?
What about SRPs?
What about NCOERs, (confusion at the centralized board)?
Just what about the heterosexuals who are just offended...period!
http://www.stripes.com/news/us/transgender-soldier-back-on-the-front-lines-1.355432
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 19
Ah hell, I'll give it a shot.
1. Let's standardize the PT scale (like we've been talking about forever) and go with that for everyone.
2. The medical doctor makes that determination.
3. I agree there will be some issues - but I don't think they will be as chaotic as everyone thinks they will be. I'm sure that CSMs will still find time to complain about people walking on the grass.
4. I'm all for Co-Ed bathrooms for everyone.
5. Eliminate gender from tracking systems in general.
6. If there isn't an offended Soldier in the formation, something has gone horribly wrong.
1. Let's standardize the PT scale (like we've been talking about forever) and go with that for everyone.
2. The medical doctor makes that determination.
3. I agree there will be some issues - but I don't think they will be as chaotic as everyone thinks they will be. I'm sure that CSMs will still find time to complain about people walking on the grass.
4. I'm all for Co-Ed bathrooms for everyone.
5. Eliminate gender from tracking systems in general.
6. If there isn't an offended Soldier in the formation, something has gone horribly wrong.
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SGT Bryon Sergent
Sir Right on track in my view, expect the Latrines. Men don't need to be in with the women. It isn't the women I am worried about. Divorce rate is already High. If I go in to take a shower and I shower with a female I WILL BE DIVORCED whether anything happened or not!
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Medical officers should determine the "actual" sex for PT or other purposes.
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MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca
If I remember my basic anatomy, having one = Male, minus one = Female. Has something changed since then? :-)
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CW5 Jim Steddum
The medical community is more confused about this than any... There is a transgender case at Tripler Army Medical Center. They are awaiting policy decisions on this very topic. The problem is Soldiers like clear policy (square peg, round hole, etc.) However, the medical profession is of the opinion that one is the sex they identify with. That is a big problem when the subject is confused, or at least partially identified.
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SGM (Join to see)
Well, there was Corporal Hwun Hung Lo who got his nickname after being wounded in firefight....
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I am not trying to upset anyone, but if you are worried about transgender troops and the specifics of their role in the Military let's go back in time a bit and hear some discussions:
1. Women in the Military : What are we going to do with them? What PT scale are we going to use? How are men supposed to behave around the Women? Do we need to have have separate latrines? What about Men who are offended by Women in the Military?
2. African Americans in the Military: What are we going to do with them? What PT scale are we going to use? How are White soldiers supposed to behave around the African-American soldiers? Do we need to have have separate latrines? What about soldiers who are offended by African Americans?
3. Gays in the Military: What are we going to do with them? How are gay soldiers supposed to behave around the non-gay soldiers? Do we need to have have separate latrines? What about soldiers who are offended by Gays?
In other words, it's not the first time that the Military has had to deal with an unknown situation, but here we still are. This situation too, will be reviewed, standards will be formed and the world will keep spinning without the Military "crashing and burning". New things can be scary, but we learn, we adapt, and we overcome all obstacles.
1. Women in the Military : What are we going to do with them? What PT scale are we going to use? How are men supposed to behave around the Women? Do we need to have have separate latrines? What about Men who are offended by Women in the Military?
2. African Americans in the Military: What are we going to do with them? What PT scale are we going to use? How are White soldiers supposed to behave around the African-American soldiers? Do we need to have have separate latrines? What about soldiers who are offended by African Americans?
3. Gays in the Military: What are we going to do with them? How are gay soldiers supposed to behave around the non-gay soldiers? Do we need to have have separate latrines? What about soldiers who are offended by Gays?
In other words, it's not the first time that the Military has had to deal with an unknown situation, but here we still are. This situation too, will be reviewed, standards will be formed and the world will keep spinning without the Military "crashing and burning". New things can be scary, but we learn, we adapt, and we overcome all obstacles.
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CSM James Winslow
I think the issues associated with Transgender soldiers are more medical than social. Once you start the process, it is a transition that can be complicated (and expensive). Not something the military medical community is neccessarily capable of dealing with right now.....
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We simply have to cross the bridges as we come to them and not dig trenches and fill sandbags in anticipation of an attack. Things will work themselves out.
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Simply put, there will be no confusion.
There will be a policy, just like there is for everything else. How many times have we ran into something where there isn't an official policy?
The policy will either be Congress Directed (Law), Pentagon Directed, and/or Service Directed.
Eventually, everything is going to "gender neutral," or as close as we can get to it as possible. Things like the (A)PFT/PRT will have physiological "normalization" but we must keep in mind that we are measure Physical FITNESS, a measure of Health, not Combat Prowess, with these specific tests.
As for whether people will be offended, the government does take that into account, but sooner or later it becomes Directive in nature, and those who cannot adhere to policy must choose another line of work.
There will be a policy, just like there is for everything else. How many times have we ran into something where there isn't an official policy?
The policy will either be Congress Directed (Law), Pentagon Directed, and/or Service Directed.
Eventually, everything is going to "gender neutral," or as close as we can get to it as possible. Things like the (A)PFT/PRT will have physiological "normalization" but we must keep in mind that we are measure Physical FITNESS, a measure of Health, not Combat Prowess, with these specific tests.
As for whether people will be offended, the government does take that into account, but sooner or later it becomes Directive in nature, and those who cannot adhere to policy must choose another line of work.
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Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
SFC (Join to see) Perhaps. I just don't get emotional about many (most) issues. This is one of them.
We have a current policy when it comes to Transgender Troops. It is evolving as we speak (authority to discharge is being raised). We used to have a policy regarding gays in the military. It evolved. As it evolved, the enforcement of it was written in proverbial stone.
Why get caught up in "what ifs" when we have clear policy guidelines? There are a great many policies I disagree with. I've made no secret of that. But while wearing the uniform, we must adhere to them. If we do not wish to adhere to them, we have the choice as free citizens to vote with our feet (at the end of our commitment).
We have a current policy when it comes to Transgender Troops. It is evolving as we speak (authority to discharge is being raised). We used to have a policy regarding gays in the military. It evolved. As it evolved, the enforcement of it was written in proverbial stone.
Why get caught up in "what ifs" when we have clear policy guidelines? There are a great many policies I disagree with. I've made no secret of that. But while wearing the uniform, we must adhere to them. If we do not wish to adhere to them, we have the choice as free citizens to vote with our feet (at the end of our commitment).
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SSG, for your example #1, this is why Transgenders are not administratively eligible for Military service. AR 40-501, para 3-35 says that "A history of, or current manifestations of(...)psychosexual conditions, transsexual, gender identity disorder to include major abnormalities or defects of the genitalia such as change of sex or a current attempt to change sex(...)or dysfunctional residuals from surgical correction of these conditions render an individual administratively unfit." further, "These conditions render an individual administratively unfit rather than unfit because of physical illness or medical disability." I other words, "there is a lot going on with this Soldiers anatomy that we as a force are not currently able to deal with" (My words). So once you start the process, (Hormone treatments) you would be discharged. As far as VA Care for you after you are discharged, that is up to the VA (I believe they are offering it, but I am not sure). So the issue would never come about. You are male until you are female (or female until you are male) by that time it will not be a problem. For that reason, I also do not see unisex latrines. But someone will think of it I am sure.... As for how your new sister relates to you, that is a problem the sisterhood (or the brotherhood) would have to solve. A social acclimatization issue. As a former CSM, not my issue. As for NCOERs, see my previous statement. Obviously, as you can see, there is still a lot of work to be done before the American military (as progressive as we are) can deal with all of the problems associated with Transgender Soldiers.
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SFC (Join to see)
I would say that a transgender would have to declare their "gender identification" at their recruiter's office and MEPS and have to adhere to that gender's standards for their full enlistment/career. No "changing your mind" once you're in.
As to male to female transgenders relating you issues you and my other Sisters In Arms have, I can't speak intelligently on that so I'll leave that question to women (both biological and male to female transgendered women).
Unisex latrines/heads - No. Use the one already designated for your gender (birth gender for those of us who aren't transgendered and "gender identified as" in the case of transgenders. See my first statement for further clarification.
I'm not sure what SRP's are (must be an Army thing) so I'll let a Soldier answer that.
Heterosexuals who are offended - get over it, just like you (we) had to do when DADT was abolished and gays were allowed to serve openly. Hell, we all knew who was gay already so it was a non-issue.
I would say that a transgender would have to declare their "gender identification" at their recruiter's office and MEPS and have to adhere to that gender's standards for their full enlistment/career. No "changing your mind" once you're in.
As to male to female transgenders relating you issues you and my other Sisters In Arms have, I can't speak intelligently on that so I'll leave that question to women (both biological and male to female transgendered women).
Unisex latrines/heads - No. Use the one already designated for your gender (birth gender for those of us who aren't transgendered and "gender identified as" in the case of transgenders. See my first statement for further clarification.
I'm not sure what SRP's are (must be an Army thing) so I'll let a Soldier answer that.
Heterosexuals who are offended - get over it, just like you (we) had to do when DADT was abolished and gays were allowed to serve openly. Hell, we all knew who was gay already so it was a non-issue.
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The real question should be, "How would this make the Army/Navy/USMC/Air Force better?" Will allowing these folks to join somehow enhance a force that as been through 14 years of war and the veterans of which are committing suicide at a rate of 22 day? If there is no plus side, other than allowing someone who will be on a long profile every time there is an 'enhancement', 'procedure', or some other medical issue a 'free' pay check and medical at taxpayer's expense, then this should be completely disallowed, unless, of course, the 'complete transformation' is done at the person's own expense and before they enlist/commission...
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For me it gets down to me as science, if you XY chromosomes you are for all practical matters still a male, just because you cut off you penis, doesn't change that. If you are double XX you are female. But of course I am using logic in a realm where logic doesn't really apply, so what do I know.
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Im for equality and all.... And have most definitely seen my fair share of danglers....pta....all im saying...but transgenders in the army wiuld be weird... And confusing..
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