Posted on Jul 1, 2015
Do you think there would be chaos and confusion if the military allowed transgender troops?
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I can think of so many improvisions which would need to be made because, experience hasn't been met by anyone yet.
Example1.) If a male enters the military as an 11B let's say, has completed surgery and has to take an APFT do we use the scale for males or females? Who determines when the process is finalized?
I can think of the confusion for Command Sergeants Majors when it comes to Command Climate.
How about Sisters in Arms? Can a female ( that used to be a male) really relate to me and the issues real females have in the Military?
Will there really be a unisex latrine for Transgender's who haven't completed their treatment?
What about SRPs?
What about NCOERs, (confusion at the centralized board)?
Just what about the heterosexuals who are just offended...period!
http://www.stripes.com/news/us/transgender-soldier-back-on-the-front-lines-1.355432
Example1.) If a male enters the military as an 11B let's say, has completed surgery and has to take an APFT do we use the scale for males or females? Who determines when the process is finalized?
I can think of the confusion for Command Sergeants Majors when it comes to Command Climate.
How about Sisters in Arms? Can a female ( that used to be a male) really relate to me and the issues real females have in the Military?
Will there really be a unisex latrine for Transgender's who haven't completed their treatment?
What about SRPs?
What about NCOERs, (confusion at the centralized board)?
Just what about the heterosexuals who are just offended...period!
http://www.stripes.com/news/us/transgender-soldier-back-on-the-front-lines-1.355432
Posted in these groups: 
Command Climate
Transgender
Command Climate Transgender
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 19
I think it would really be an issue. In the civilian world gender really doesn't matter. But you don't see this in the NFL or NBA. Women just can't compete with men there. This much of the same way when it comes to the combat arms side of the house. Can they play ball, yeah. But there is some disadvantages that they bring. This will be extremely dangerous. What happens when there is a Female only position. Just like the cultural engagement teams and a man that identifies as a female wants to join? Sometimes gender they identify with may not reflect so well in their appearance.
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SFC Nikhil Kumra
Meh... most people would cry and complain for a week... A few would get beat up by a tranny, and nobody would care by the following month...
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CPT (Join to see)
SFC Nikhil Kumra - I don't think it is that simple. What if a women that identifies as a man tries to go to SFAS as a male. It is just muddying up the waters.
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SFC Nikhil Kumra
It is - it actually screws a lot of things up - and really, I don't understand how something legitimately labeled as a disorder is a "lifestyle choice"... But I wonder what is going on around active duty bases now with same sex couples getting housing and what not. I'm sure people are grumbling about it - but in a year it'll just be a norm. As for the whole female identifying as a male - that is a little more black and white I would think where 1) quite frankly lets call it what it is - a psychological issue - if you're a guy, and you have such strong convictions that you shouldn't be - to the extent of invasive surgery? How is that not a psychological issue? How is that not more serious of an issue than bi-polar disorder? or something along those lines? And forearm tattoos are "evil"?
The entire thing makes no sense - this isn't an issue of Soldier safety, or doing what is best for our military - it is purely political. Nobody has the courage to really call it a mental disorder anymore... And really, I'm not sure how gender dysphoria is not a disorder... It logically and rationally makes absolutely no sense.
It is somehow offensive to call it a disorder -- MORE THAN calling downs syndrome a genetic disorder, or manic-depression a disorder.
The entire thing makes no sense - this isn't an issue of Soldier safety, or doing what is best for our military - it is purely political. Nobody has the courage to really call it a mental disorder anymore... And really, I'm not sure how gender dysphoria is not a disorder... It logically and rationally makes absolutely no sense.
It is somehow offensive to call it a disorder -- MORE THAN calling downs syndrome a genetic disorder, or manic-depression a disorder.
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SFC (Join to see), You have brought up a interesting subject and subtopics. I can't address all of the issues on my on but for the APFT or PT test, I think that issue will be up to a doctor. A man or woman can transition to the opposite sex and be on hormones but I am not even remotely qualified to suggest when are they going to at the point they should be administered the APFT standards that matches their current sex.
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It's the Army. We thrive on hindsight and mass scale disorganization.
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Sponsored by the US Government, the same folks who brought you Vietnam, Grenada and Panama, and coming soon to a theater near you, Iran!
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(Pulls out soapbox, stands up on it)
1. The SM in question has fully transitioned. According to WPATH (the World Professional Association for Transgender Health) the APA, and the AMA, said SM is (for all intents and purposes) female. If you are still confused, ask google or message a trans service member.
2. CSMs don't like change. Got it. But that hasn't stopped the push for equality for cis-women, African Americans (or, as they should be referred to as, Americans), or the homosexual community. They can accept another change.
3. Can you relate to "This person is trans, and it freaked me out so I had to killh im/her/them"? In 49 states, that is a LEGAL defense. Can we relate to what you've had to go through your entire life? Probably not. But you can't get what we go through either; you have your privilege, we have ours. What we can all do is try to put all that on back-burner so we cam act like the professionals we're SUPPOSED to be.
Oh, and I AM a real female, thank you very much. You want to argue the point, you can e-mail me or send a pm.
4. Yes, because segregated bathrooms have worked SO WELL in the past. How many cases have there been of a trans* individual going into the bathroom corresponding to their gender identity in the civilian world? None. Maybe the military can catch up with the times.
5. Do you get special treatment in regards to srp for being African American? How about for being female? I don't need, or want, special treatment. I just want to serve my country without being penalized for what I consider to be a birth condition.
6. SSG, Maybe I'm missing something, because I don't even see the validity of this point. How does my gender have ANYTHING to do with how I work as an NCO?! If I look out for my soldiers and get the mission done while upholding the Army Values, then I'm a good NCO; what's between my legs has NOTHING AT ALL TO DO WITH IT.
7. What about the male soldiers who are offended because there are women in the Army? Or African Americans? Or (gasp) the dreaded homosexuals?! As with point six, your argument is invalid, and I would like to point out that even if our existence offends you for some reason, we will STILL guard your six down-range, because WE ARE PROFESSIONALS who will place the mission before our own welfare.
(Gets off soapbox, puts it away)
Thank you for your time.
1. The SM in question has fully transitioned. According to WPATH (the World Professional Association for Transgender Health) the APA, and the AMA, said SM is (for all intents and purposes) female. If you are still confused, ask google or message a trans service member.
2. CSMs don't like change. Got it. But that hasn't stopped the push for equality for cis-women, African Americans (or, as they should be referred to as, Americans), or the homosexual community. They can accept another change.
3. Can you relate to "This person is trans, and it freaked me out so I had to killh im/her/them"? In 49 states, that is a LEGAL defense. Can we relate to what you've had to go through your entire life? Probably not. But you can't get what we go through either; you have your privilege, we have ours. What we can all do is try to put all that on back-burner so we cam act like the professionals we're SUPPOSED to be.
Oh, and I AM a real female, thank you very much. You want to argue the point, you can e-mail me or send a pm.
4. Yes, because segregated bathrooms have worked SO WELL in the past. How many cases have there been of a trans* individual going into the bathroom corresponding to their gender identity in the civilian world? None. Maybe the military can catch up with the times.
5. Do you get special treatment in regards to srp for being African American? How about for being female? I don't need, or want, special treatment. I just want to serve my country without being penalized for what I consider to be a birth condition.
6. SSG, Maybe I'm missing something, because I don't even see the validity of this point. How does my gender have ANYTHING to do with how I work as an NCO?! If I look out for my soldiers and get the mission done while upholding the Army Values, then I'm a good NCO; what's between my legs has NOTHING AT ALL TO DO WITH IT.
7. What about the male soldiers who are offended because there are women in the Army? Or African Americans? Or (gasp) the dreaded homosexuals?! As with point six, your argument is invalid, and I would like to point out that even if our existence offends you for some reason, we will STILL guard your six down-range, because WE ARE PROFESSIONALS who will place the mission before our own welfare.
(Gets off soapbox, puts it away)
Thank you for your time.
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No, because they are already in the military. SFC (Join to see) . This is same as the hysteria about DADT being rescinded...
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Wait a second... So female soldiers have been wanting to be treated equally in the Army and recently allowed to get combat MOS's ... But now we are so worried about what if a trans is allowed in? And worried about peoples feelings on being offended? Smfh
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SFC (Join to see)
Just the fact that the Army is predominately male and your attitude is the way it is. The two do not compare. CPL (Join to see) you should worry about offending? One day you will be a leader and have to look at circumstances, issues, and the morale for all of your troops. The mere fact that your attitude is the way that it is, says that the future of your leadership style is one sided. You will be faced with some tough decisions and will have to place your values in your ethical problem solving.
You have a lot to learn Specialist
You have a lot to learn Specialist
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CPL (Join to see)
With all due respect SSG, I am an excellent junior leader that true I do have alot of things to learn. But I take care of ALL of my soldiers no matter what rank. I look at every situation and all aspects of situations that arise. But As a gay male in the military that has tough enough skin to not be offended off little stuff that I hear thats homophobic I could honestly careless about homophobes worrying about being offended off life... Its 2015 things are different and people need to overcome and adapt to change. My leadership style has be complimented from all my leadership..... Now you say that my attitude is one sided. Your post SSG makes it sound like your oposed to allowing trans people into the Army because how can that person relate to you as a female because, he for example was born a male and not a female. How do you know about that individuals sexual identify throughtout his/her life.... I have many trans friends that grew up male yet inside felt and lived as if they are female ... Only differance if they can get pregnant and dont have a menstralcycle (if i spelled that correct) yet we shouldnt allow them in to serve amongs us because someone might be offended... I believe its you SSG that has alot to learn
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Suspended Profile
I think the cart is about a thousand miles ahead of the horse on this one.
First questions should be can a post surgical transgender even join the military?
With the ongoing cost of medicine and medical followup would they be allowed in for this "pre-existing" medical condition.
First questions should be can a post surgical transgender even join the military?
With the ongoing cost of medicine and medical followup would they be allowed in for this "pre-existing" medical condition.
Suspended Profile
The upcoming presidential elections will have little or no effect of on this. Enlistment eligibility is driven by more than the whim of one person. And this is not an executive order type items. The is no additional cost incurred to the service if you are a cross-dresser or gay....but there is significant cost that the service would incur for a post op transgender....so much so that it could preclude enlistment.....honestly i'm not sure....I just know folks who have been denied for medical reasons because the military did not want to the take on the responsibility of paying for the pre-existing conditions...I also remember reading somewhere that post op medical care for gender reassignment can run between $50-$200 a month for medication alone......anyway what do I know i'm just guy on a website.....and just to be clear i'm only talking about post op transgenders....those that are pre op would of course not add a financial burden to the military upon enlistment and would be able to enlist (but then of course comes the question does TriCare or DoD pay the up to $50K for them to have the procedure if they decide they want it). Anyway like I said what do I know and I think there are to many unanswered questions at this time and the cart has been put way before the horse.
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