Posted on Aug 19, 2022
Do you think we should get rid of the Bronze Star for Meritorious Service in theater?
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I'm sure many of us have heard stories of desk jockies and people who never left the wire getting a BSM without V Device over Troops that saw action and were lucky to get an ARCOM if that.
What if instead of allowing a BSM for meritorious acts inside the wire we limit it to Valor and Meritorious acts that are proven outside the wire. If the SM involved was in legitimate danger or on patrols in addition to their other responsibilities that might warrant such an award.
If they were not, then authorize an MSM with C Device to note that they got it while in theater.
I've even heard leaders describe a BSM without V as just an MSM awarded in theater.
So what do you think? Is it time to consider awarding MSM's with C Devices in the next conflict instead of handing out BSM to E7's and up?
The MSM already warrants the R Device and the ARCOM warrants the C Device as well, is it such a stretch?
What if instead of allowing a BSM for meritorious acts inside the wire we limit it to Valor and Meritorious acts that are proven outside the wire. If the SM involved was in legitimate danger or on patrols in addition to their other responsibilities that might warrant such an award.
If they were not, then authorize an MSM with C Device to note that they got it while in theater.
I've even heard leaders describe a BSM without V as just an MSM awarded in theater.
So what do you think? Is it time to consider awarding MSM's with C Devices in the next conflict instead of handing out BSM to E7's and up?
The MSM already warrants the R Device and the ARCOM warrants the C Device as well, is it such a stretch?
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Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 15
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As originally conceived the award of the Bronze Star was governed by the following:
Executive Order 9419, 4 February 1944 >
There is hereby established the Bronze
Star Medal, with accompanying ribbons
and appurtenances, for award to any
person who, while serving in any capacity
in or with the Army, Navy, Marine Corps,
or Coast Guard of the United States on
or after December 7, 1941, distinguishes,
or has distinguished, himself by heroic
or meritorious achievement or service,
not involving participation in aerial
flight, in connection with military or
naval operations against an enemy of the
United States.
----------
Executive Order 11046, 24 August 1962 >
The Bronze Star Medal, with accompanying ribbons and appurtenances, which was first
established by Executive Order No. 9419 of February 4, 1944, may be awarded by the Secretary
of a military department or the Secretary of Transportation with regard to the Coast Guard
when not operating as a service in the Navy, or by such military commanders, or other
appropriate oýicers as the Secretary concerned may designate, to any person who, while
serving in any capacity in or with the Army, Navy, Marine Corps, Air Force, or Coast Guard of the
United States, aÿer December 6, 1941, distinguishes, or has distinguished, himself by heroic or
meritorious achievement or service, not involving participation in aerial flight--
(a) while engaged in an action against an enemy of the United States;
(b) while engaged in military operations involving conflict with an opposing foreign force; or
(c) while serving with friendly foreign forces engaged in an armed conflict against an opposing
armed force in which the United States is not a belligerent party.
----------
Executive Order 13286, 28 February 2003 >
Sec. 70. Executive Order 11046 of August 24, 1962 (‘‘Authorizing Award
of the Bronze Star Medal’’), as amended, is further amended by striking
‘‘the Secretary of Transportation’’ in section 1 and inserting ‘‘the Secretary
of Homeland Security’’ in lieu thereof.
I appreciate SPC Benjamin's frustration and his "from the foxhole view". The problem is not that the regulations associated with the award of the Bronze Star Medal are being misapplied. The problem is the artificial limitations on the number of awards that can be made. In my opinion this overinflates the value of the award in the decision matrix for promotion and command assignments of career officers and NCOs. I am not implying that every career minded individual is of necessity a "badge hunters". What I am saying is that everyone who qualifies for the award of the BSM as established should receive it. SPC Benjamin has recommended a requirement of "outside the wire" action only for eligibility. I contend that warfare has changed dramatically since the concept of the FEBA (forward edge of the battle area) and "Air-Land Battle. There is no true frontline today. Anyone who is assigned to an "area" or zone of armed conflict today has a greater likelihood of becoming a casualty than did the rear echelon of past conflicts. Make the award as it was initially intended and remove the artificial caps to the numbers of awards that can be made.
Executive Order 9419, 4 February 1944 >
There is hereby established the Bronze
Star Medal, with accompanying ribbons
and appurtenances, for award to any
person who, while serving in any capacity
in or with the Army, Navy, Marine Corps,
or Coast Guard of the United States on
or after December 7, 1941, distinguishes,
or has distinguished, himself by heroic
or meritorious achievement or service,
not involving participation in aerial
flight, in connection with military or
naval operations against an enemy of the
United States.
----------
Executive Order 11046, 24 August 1962 >
The Bronze Star Medal, with accompanying ribbons and appurtenances, which was first
established by Executive Order No. 9419 of February 4, 1944, may be awarded by the Secretary
of a military department or the Secretary of Transportation with regard to the Coast Guard
when not operating as a service in the Navy, or by such military commanders, or other
appropriate oýicers as the Secretary concerned may designate, to any person who, while
serving in any capacity in or with the Army, Navy, Marine Corps, Air Force, or Coast Guard of the
United States, aÿer December 6, 1941, distinguishes, or has distinguished, himself by heroic or
meritorious achievement or service, not involving participation in aerial flight--
(a) while engaged in an action against an enemy of the United States;
(b) while engaged in military operations involving conflict with an opposing foreign force; or
(c) while serving with friendly foreign forces engaged in an armed conflict against an opposing
armed force in which the United States is not a belligerent party.
----------
Executive Order 13286, 28 February 2003 >
Sec. 70. Executive Order 11046 of August 24, 1962 (‘‘Authorizing Award
of the Bronze Star Medal’’), as amended, is further amended by striking
‘‘the Secretary of Transportation’’ in section 1 and inserting ‘‘the Secretary
of Homeland Security’’ in lieu thereof.
I appreciate SPC Benjamin's frustration and his "from the foxhole view". The problem is not that the regulations associated with the award of the Bronze Star Medal are being misapplied. The problem is the artificial limitations on the number of awards that can be made. In my opinion this overinflates the value of the award in the decision matrix for promotion and command assignments of career officers and NCOs. I am not implying that every career minded individual is of necessity a "badge hunters". What I am saying is that everyone who qualifies for the award of the BSM as established should receive it. SPC Benjamin has recommended a requirement of "outside the wire" action only for eligibility. I contend that warfare has changed dramatically since the concept of the FEBA (forward edge of the battle area) and "Air-Land Battle. There is no true frontline today. Anyone who is assigned to an "area" or zone of armed conflict today has a greater likelihood of becoming a casualty than did the rear echelon of past conflicts. Make the award as it was initially intended and remove the artificial caps to the numbers of awards that can be made.
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SPC (Join to see)
That's a fair point. By artificial do you mean limitations units try to put on how many awards can be awarded?
While it's true that modern warfare has significantly redefined what a front line is I feel that there should be due consideration in place to the level of danger or hostility a unit faces when recommended awards. Of course that can change over the course of a tour so it's not exactly easy to define and can leave room for interpretation.
I would have to agree with the removal of artificial caps as mentioned, and even in the reg units are not supposed to have them and yet we do. So perhaps this is even more of an issue than redefining the criteria for awards.
While it's true that modern warfare has significantly redefined what a front line is I feel that there should be due consideration in place to the level of danger or hostility a unit faces when recommended awards. Of course that can change over the course of a tour so it's not exactly easy to define and can leave room for interpretation.
I would have to agree with the removal of artificial caps as mentioned, and even in the reg units are not supposed to have them and yet we do. So perhaps this is even more of an issue than redefining the criteria for awards.
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Suspended Profile
Hell yes the Army has abused this award and almost made it worthless. You have to look at what awards do for you after your service. The Bronze Star is one like the Purple Heart that gives you added benefits from the VA And other institutions. Yo give it to someone for leadership in supply on the FOB cheapens the award! It should only be given for actions in Combat. The the TOP POG on the FOB who rode out on one patrol and a CAB because the last truck in the convoy took a road!
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Gunna just start with....you should probably rethink your wording on things when you have never been in a combat zone.
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SPC (Join to see)
No and I probably never will, I do find it awful interesting how those that do tend to get screwed on awards though.
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SSG (Join to see)
SPC (Join to see) - I do too. You are not wrong for asking these questions. It's the manner in which you are asking them which is a bit brazen
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SPC (Join to see)
SSG (Join to see) - I've noticed being meek and respectful all the time doesn't ignite passion in conversation and seldom warrants real answers. I might incite negative or awkward feeling about the subject, but before the next generation kicks off on another march around the globe perhaps this is something more of us should think about. It's certainly something we've seen or heard of being abused over the last 20 years.
I view awards as a story, they don't really belong to us, or the Army, or the officer awarding them, they belong to our children and grandchildren and those who are going to look at them down the generations after we're long gone. They should not be withheld erroneously, or given out at the expense of others beneath us, or by virtue of rank, they should be awarded with merit justly earned.
No unit has the same standard, no leader has the same standard, so this discussion while brazen or crass to some I view as needed by many. I don't disparage those who have received MSM's, BSM's, or BSMV's, they should be lauded and I hope the generations that follow them look at them with pride; but we should in my opinion as low on the pole as it may be consider revising how and where it is awarded and I think the C device grants us that opportunity.
I view awards as a story, they don't really belong to us, or the Army, or the officer awarding them, they belong to our children and grandchildren and those who are going to look at them down the generations after we're long gone. They should not be withheld erroneously, or given out at the expense of others beneath us, or by virtue of rank, they should be awarded with merit justly earned.
No unit has the same standard, no leader has the same standard, so this discussion while brazen or crass to some I view as needed by many. I don't disparage those who have received MSM's, BSM's, or BSMV's, they should be lauded and I hope the generations that follow them look at them with pride; but we should in my opinion as low on the pole as it may be consider revising how and where it is awarded and I think the C device grants us that opportunity.
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Depends on the act and who is giving it out. Inside or outside, politics awards undeserved medals. Don't forget that soldiers inside the wire make it possible for warfighters to operate outside the wire, and the wire gets moved easily these days.
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SPC (Join to see)
I don't diminish the service of Soldiers inside the wire, I work inside the wire my job is not for the known battlefield and all those jobs are a necessity. However when Soldiers outside of the wire are the ones getting shot at and blown up and they leave with an AAM and a pat on the back it's kind of spitting on their boots when a guy manning a desk got a BSM as an EOT with a couple tack on awards for impact.
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