Posted on Jun 4, 2019
1LT(P) Quartermaster Officer
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I have a Cadet that failed to properly utilize the CoC to ask me if he could be excused from Annual Training to attend a months-long internship across the country. He's known about the internship for months, but waited to tell the unit until today, two days after he had left.

Apparently he initially called our brand new training NCO to get his orders rescinded, and upon being told that wasn't possible at that NCO's level, attempted to call the Commander once before taking matters into his own hands and just deciding to go anyway. He knows as a "3rd LT" in our unit that all the Os including him report to me as I am the XO.

My CDR is understandably pissed, and wants me to counsel him so we can begin the process to get him moved to a different unit. Should I counsel him for failure to communicate with chain of command about his plans now, and then give him another for being AWOL once AT starts, or roll both the counselings into one? Anyone have a counseling example for failure to communicate/plan/set an example, so that I don't have to recreate the wheel?
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SFC Marc W.
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If this is how he/she acts as a cadet, I don't want them "leading" my platoon. This is how we get LT's that murder a village.
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1LT(P) Quartermaster Officer
1LT(P) (Join to see)
6 y
My thoughts too. He can't manage his own business. How will he manage soliders?
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SFC Marc W.
SFC Marc W.
6 y
Extremely poorly. This should definitely go to cadet command, PMS or whoever can review their status as a cadet.
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MSgt Operations Intelligence
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If I'm reading this right, he had orders to report. I see not only AWOL charge but also Failure to go, failure to obey a lawful order, and conduct of unbecoming. So my question is, why mess around with a counseling? He is a grown adult and knows what is expected of him. Kick him out. You are then sending the message to others that this will not be tolerated.
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MSgt Operations Intelligence
MSgt (Join to see)
6 y
CPT Enrique M. - Great points. You would have to find out if he is or is not subject to the UCMJ and go from there. That would make a big difference.
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SPC Practical/Vocational Nursing
SPC (Join to see)
6 y
CPT Enrique M. Sir if he’s not contracted can you prevent him from becoming contracted? I don’t want someone like that leading me into battle or even to the dfac for that matter.
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CPT Enrique M.
CPT Enrique M.
6 y
SPC (Join to see) - Yes and No.. Yes because the unit has influence on letting the ROTC unit know that the cadet doesn't meet standards. No because ultimately the decision is made by the ROTC unit and the processing steps they are required to make for contracting.
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CPT Company Commander
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>1 y
My situation is similar in that we have 2 cadets that failed to show. We started the AWOL counseling but it was brought up that the cadets would be flagged for adverse action which may affect their scholarship. How would the adverse action flag get removed? How do they get back to their ROTC unit?
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CPT Griff Tatum
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A counseling statement is just documention that a conversation was had. As soon as he leaves or commissions out of the unit he can rip. And if the training NCO works for you/ the CO, then counsel him on why he’s adjusting his orders in the first place. He shouldn’t have initiated an internship knowing that he had military obligations. No one held his hand while he signed....
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Does anyone have a counseling statement for lack of communication and INTENTION to go AWOL? Or should those be two different event oriented?
CPT Board Member
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The counseling will only go as far as you can throw it once he's out of cadet command. Have you initiated conversations with his cadet CoC?
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1LT(P) Quartermaster Officer
1LT(P) (Join to see)
6 y
I'm weighing that option now. When I was a CDT my CDR would have a phone call with my ROTC cadre once a semester to discuss my performance. We should start doing that in this unit.
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CPT Board Member
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6 y
1LT(P) (Join to see) frankly, they're the ones that technically control said cadet until commissioning.
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1LT(P) Quartermaster Officer
1LT(P) (Join to see)
6 y
I left a message this morning asking his Cadre to please give me a call.
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MSG Intermediate Care Technician
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Turn and burn this Cadet. Failure to communicate. Circumventing the Chain of Command. Failure to Report. AWOL. Sounds like perfect grounds to be removed from the ROTC program.
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1LT(P) Quartermaster Officer
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For anyone who is curious,or who finds themself in this position as an XO or CDR, I was able to find a briefing that made the argument that a paid internship is covered under USERRA, which I sent to the Cadet as proof that his employer needs to let him return for AT. So he can't use that as an excuse if he decides not to show up. Sorry for the mangled thumbnail; it's a PDF.
https://cdn.ymaws.com/http://www.roa.org/resource/resmgr/LawReviews/2016/16020-LR.pdf
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SGT Greg Gold
SGT Greg Gold
6 y
Well done LT.
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LTC Stephen C.
LTC Stephen C.
6 y
Excellent research, 1LT(P) (Join to see)!
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1LT(P) Quartermaster Officer
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I've just gotten off the phone with the Cadet. I informed him that his orders would not be rescinded and that if he failed to show up for AT, the consequences for him would get much worse. As it is, he has several counseling statements coming down the line, as well as other consequences. I also called and left a message with his senior ROTC instructor asking him to call me. Maybe hearing it come from his Cadre will hold more weight then coming from me. He expressed confusion as to why simply calling the training NCO wasn't enough. Can't believe I had to explain to an MS4 how chain of command works.

Thanks everyone for your help.
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CPT Enrique M.
CPT Enrique M.
6 y
MS4 , yikes even worst. So he is contracted. I would still counsel him ASAP. Even if he doesn't proceed just having the intentions of not wanting to go while on orders is crazy.

He not only needs counseling I highly suggest the leadership and NCOs work on this cadet at AT and before AT ASAP. This particular cadet will be leading others and what he has displayed is on becoming and officer. Which is not good at all.
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SSG Brian G.
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If I understand your above correctly this cadet knew about this movement, knew about his pending internship, failed to make the proper adjustments in a timely manner and then missed movement to AT. You could roll this into one but that is a lot to put on one and honestly it is two separate instances even though they are linked. One is/has happened now and the other will occur when he misses movement, being AWOL. Break it up into two, heck you could break it into three to be perfectly honest. My question is was there an explicit order to him ie all the cadets as to the chain of command and how things flow?

#1
Cadet Blank knew about Annual Training, cite relevant memorandum with date given to cadets. Cadet Blank knew that he had a schedule conflict that would prevent him from attending AT and chose to not avail himself of the CoC in a timely manner to make the appropriate coordinations and necessary changes to orders.

#2
Cadet Blank on (insert date) was informed of Annual Training and date of departure. Cadet Blank missed AT commencement on (insert date) and did not have prior permission from command to be absent of and from training.

You could do a 3rd for failure to follow orders
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MAJ Geiter Dunn
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It's not lack of communication. It's AWOL, disobeying orders, missing movement, and there's probably other charges that can be added, details dependent. I wouldn't counsel, I would at a minimum Article 15. This is conduct that has no place in the Army. Yes, they are Cadidiots, but you see describing a cadet that places personal comfort and decisions above "needs of the Army". There is no place in the Army for a soldier who does that. Even once.
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SMSgt Security Forces Manager
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So let me get this straight. The 3rd Lt. As you’ve stated didn’t show for AT and you want to start the process to move him to another unit? Help me to understand that philosophy. Where I come from, we deal with issues like this, counseling’s, reprimands etc... we don’t pass our problem children off to another unit.
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1LT(P) Quartermaster Officer
1LT(P) (Join to see)
6 y
We haven't had AT yet. He intended to go AWOL when he couldn't get a sufficient response from the unit by being excused from AT. I asked specifically for counseling statements for him.
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