Posted on May 21, 2015
Does fall of Ramadi degrade the sacrifice of those who fought, died there?
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Daly, the author of the Iraq memoir “Rage Company,” still holds out hope that the Iraqi military and tribesmen can take back Ramadi with American help. But he fears that if things in don’t turn around, those who fought in Iraq will feel like their Vietnam veteran brethren, many of whom say their friends died for nothing.
http://www.stripes.com/news/does-fall-of-ramadi-degrade-the-sacrifice-of-those-who-fought-died-there-1.347429
http://www.stripes.com/news/does-fall-of-ramadi-degrade-the-sacrifice-of-those-who-fought-died-there-1.347429
Posted in these groups: 
Iraq
Operation Iraqi Freedom (OIF)
Iraq Operation Iraqi Freedom (OIF)
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 42
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I'm going to echo what everyone else is saying in "No, it's a reflection of the politicians not the troops." BUT with a caviet...
It's also a reflection of "We the people" (speaking as a civilian of 20+ years).
Granted, I have the experience of Desert Storm and an interest in history (and it's tendency to repeat itself), tinting my glasses, but I am personally disgusted that the civilian population pays lip service about "supporting the troops" on one hand while acting horrified when war is waged to win.
It's also a reflection of "We the people" (speaking as a civilian of 20+ years).
Granted, I have the experience of Desert Storm and an interest in history (and it's tendency to repeat itself), tinting my glasses, but I am personally disgusted that the civilian population pays lip service about "supporting the troops" on one hand while acting horrified when war is waged to win.
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SFC Robert Wheeler
Good God, Specialist, I pray I society remains horrified when war is waged. I don't want to live in a society that is too calloused or ignorant to see the horrors of war and wish for even greater horror. Also, we haven't been in a war we can win since WWII.
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SPC David Hannaman
I respectfully disagree SFC Wheeler we have not been in a war where the stakes are high enough that loosing is not an option.
To your point, war is horrific. It should not be entered into lightly. If it is deemed necessary it should be fought brutally with no thought given to political correctness.
We have the capacity to parallel park a 2,000lb bomb from 60,000 ft... We have the technology to pinpoint exactly which building a shot is fired from or where the signal for an IED originated... There is no reason to tolerate insurgent attacks on our troops.
To your point, war is horrific. It should not be entered into lightly. If it is deemed necessary it should be fought brutally with no thought given to political correctness.
We have the capacity to parallel park a 2,000lb bomb from 60,000 ft... We have the technology to pinpoint exactly which building a shot is fired from or where the signal for an IED originated... There is no reason to tolerate insurgent attacks on our troops.
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I DONT KNOW WHAT ARE WE WAITING FOR TO PUT BOOTS ON THE GROUND IN IRAK..WHO IS RUNNING THIS WAR? THE POLITICIANS SITTING IN THEIR AIR CONDITIONED OFFICES OR THE SOLDIERS ?
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No it does not, but only because most of us at the ground level and above, but still connected to the SM on the street doing the patrolling.. Saw this coming before our last deployment was even done,,, after three Iraq deployments totaling 39 months... what has been, is and will happen is not a surprise.
There fore I can not allow it to diminish what was done with my Soldiers.. We fought for each other, not Iraq. We helped the Iraqi's when we could, but knew all along they had to be the ones to do the deed, as we would not be there for ever.
There fore I can not allow it to diminish what was done with my Soldiers.. We fought for each other, not Iraq. We helped the Iraqi's when we could, but knew all along they had to be the ones to do the deed, as we would not be there for ever.
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Lets re-frame the question.
Lets say, after WWII, the allies had pulled out of Europe instead of maintaining a presence (we still have bases there) and the Nazi Party had risen to dominance again and reignited the war.
All those lives lost to take Europe from the Nazis to begin with would have been wasted, because it wouldn't have accomplished the goal.
The GOAL of war, it peace. If you quit fighting before the war is won and the enemy comes at you again, what did the war accomplish?
Lets say, after WWII, the allies had pulled out of Europe instead of maintaining a presence (we still have bases there) and the Nazi Party had risen to dominance again and reignited the war.
All those lives lost to take Europe from the Nazis to begin with would have been wasted, because it wouldn't have accomplished the goal.
The GOAL of war, it peace. If you quit fighting before the war is won and the enemy comes at you again, what did the war accomplish?
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SSG Linda Holt
In my opinion, nothing, including the current fiasco in Iraq, could ever, in any way, degrade the valiant accomplishments of our military men and women prior to the pullout. Our troops were victorious and nothing can ever take that away. Unfortunately, politicians (with no military experience) have squandered what so many fought and died for.
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Absolutely, categorically NOT. Yes, it makes it more painful for those who served their, the families of the lost and wounded and for the military community. It does not diminish the sacrifices of the men and women who paved the way to victory - no matter how transient that victory proved to be.
In some ways, what it DOES do is open the door for some soul searching. Should we have been in Iraq to begin with? Was the war ever winnable? Should we have told Iraq to go screw themselves and charlie mike when they decided to insist on an unacceptable new SOFA? And lastly, how much blame really lies with the administrations that oversaw it?
If we learn from Iraq, no one died in vain.
In some ways, what it DOES do is open the door for some soul searching. Should we have been in Iraq to begin with? Was the war ever winnable? Should we have told Iraq to go screw themselves and charlie mike when they decided to insist on an unacceptable new SOFA? And lastly, how much blame really lies with the administrations that oversaw it?
If we learn from Iraq, no one died in vain.
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SPC Donald Moore
It may not diminish the sacrifice, but if the life and blood of our troops is wasted because the government can't hold up their side of the bargain, why should troops be willing to sacrifice to accomplish the mission to begin with?
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SGT Jeremiah B.
SPC Donald Moore
Therein lies the rub that we'll be arguing for a long time - Who "failed" in Iraq? I'm not convinced handing democracy to tribal people living in artificial borders was ever a winnable proposition.
Therein lies the rub that we'll be arguing for a long time - Who "failed" in Iraq? I'm not convinced handing democracy to tribal people living in artificial borders was ever a winnable proposition.
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I had to think about this one real hard. It made me VERY angry for this. We lost a LOT of dudes in this city when the Big Red One when in there. However in the following tours as I found myself training the Iraqis I KNEW that those that I trained were not capable of holding their hats, much less a city in combat.
I would get in trouble constantly because I was not a good ambassador to the IA because I was not friendly to their stupidity. I could not tolerate their lack of being able to grasp anything. I was told all of the time that I had to be more tolerant and I could not do it. I would tell them all of the time that if they were to face enemy combatants they were going to die, and then I would get corrected. You see, I KNEW that they were not capable of completing this task. I would watch them as they went out on tasks that we were carrying out on a daily routine with ease and they were getting themselves hurt and/or killed WHILE we were in country. When it came time for us to leave I gladly threw up my hands knowing that they were going to lose everything we worked for. When they lost THIER city, although we fought to rid it of trash, I was not surprised. Just angry, angry that I am always so right.
I would get in trouble constantly because I was not a good ambassador to the IA because I was not friendly to their stupidity. I could not tolerate their lack of being able to grasp anything. I was told all of the time that I had to be more tolerant and I could not do it. I would tell them all of the time that if they were to face enemy combatants they were going to die, and then I would get corrected. You see, I KNEW that they were not capable of completing this task. I would watch them as they went out on tasks that we were carrying out on a daily routine with ease and they were getting themselves hurt and/or killed WHILE we were in country. When it came time for us to leave I gladly threw up my hands knowing that they were going to lose everything we worked for. When they lost THIER city, although we fought to rid it of trash, I was not surprised. Just angry, angry that I am always so right.
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CPT Pedro Meza
Robert, it is called ethnocentrism you come from a culture and a land of plenty you have learned to see to think to feel and rationalize there is the opposite the land is not green the foods are not plenty, survival is a daily life there, the people are at war with one another and with nature, accept that fact and learn and be grateful that is not your home.
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In my opinion, everything that is going on there degrades all vets and active duty. We left a job unfinished knowingly just because the powers that be to keep their political positions. Not the first time we have disgraced the falled as well as the walking military.
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SGT Jeremiah B.
Don't tie your honor to the political winds. That'll just mean constant degradation.
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