Posted on Apr 12, 2015
SPC Elijah J. Henry, MBA
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Hand of god
What are the best arguments for or against the existence of God?

I mean an omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, omnibenevolent Supreme Being -- the eternally and necessarily extant Creator of the universe.

Atheists, Theists, Agnostics, Polytheists, Pantheists and anyone else are all welcome to weigh in!
I'm not asking what you believe, I'm asking about the best arguments for or against the existence of God.

To clarify omnibenevolence, I mean simply 'perfect goodness,' not "the quality of being kind and generous towards everyone and everything." CH (CPT) (Join to see)
Posted in these groups: Sistine chapel image of god GodWorld religions 2 ReligionAtheism symbol Atheism
Edited 9 y ago
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MAJ Infantry Officer
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I'm sure I'll catch some flack for this. The belief in G-d is something that is faith based. There is no physical manifestation of G-d walking about the earth to come to your door and have a chat with you.

Many atheists and agnostics will state creation of the universe occurred through the big bang theory and that evolution has created the organic life we find on earth. Remarkably, the explanation of near instantaneous occurrence of universe building is pretty much what the Jewish and Christian beliefs say happened anyways. With science, they claim it simply occurred. With creation theory, they claim somebody, in this case G-d, caused it to occur.

I personally have always believed evolution to be absolute nonsense. I personally find their "proofs" for it to be spurious and fictitious at best.

As with anything related to religion, it is a matter of what you personally feel and believe in. Outside of interpersonal relationships, this is the only subject that I would generally say also falls into the category of what you feel.

I'll put it this way, if you're in the army or corps, you've probably tossed a hand grenade at least once. Did the explosion cause new life to begin and organisms to develop defined cellular structure? Just my .02
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SPC Safety Technician
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I had a longer response, but I don't think you'll read all of it given the. So I'll just say your two cents worth is actually worthless and to deny that evolution occurred is to deny science itself. Go to a real museum, and pay better attention. Also, realize that whether evolution occurred or not has nothing to do with deities.

http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/article/evo_01

http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/search/topicbrowse2.php?topic_id=47
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MAJ Infantry Officer
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That's the benefit of opinions and positions. We are all entitled to our own. I likely would not have read a longer response. You are correct about that much.
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CPL Rob N.
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Edited 9 y ago
Does it really matter? Whether you believe or not. Which ever you believe, if it is true in your heart, no one can take that from you.
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SPC Safety Technician
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1LT L S CPL Rob N.

There are people who claim that because of the absolute nature of god(s), nothing we do really matters, especially once their gods have commanded them to do something. That's why it matters. Gods are used as justification for great things, as well as many tragedies.

This isn't the philosophical the debate that OP may have (probably may not have) intended because people apply these hypothetical and largely misleading arguments to their lives and their judgment of the actions of themselves and others.
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CPT Carl Kisely
CPT Carl Kisely
9 y
It matters because beliefs directly affect decisions. People that actually believe in fairy tales are going to make poor decisions based on those beliefs. But to help those people make better decisions, they need to at least understand that the fairy tale they believe in COULD be wrong. I don't care if they still believe, I care if they believe it so strongly that they make decisions that affect other people's lives.
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CPL Rob N.
CPL Rob N.
9 y
Very true CPT Carl Kisely . But the point I was trying to make was it doesn't matter if you believe or not. There is always some individual out there to push there beliefs on you that think that there belief is the correct one. I am a believer! I don't know or care if, when, how or what. I believe and that's all I need. I don't need a church to tell me what the bible already does. And I surely don't need a church to practice my religion.
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MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca
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I believe there is a higher entity, though my faith is often tested by scientific explanation.
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PO1 Master-at-Arms
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Here's what I've come to realize about science and religion:

Science - based on facts and observations. These will NEVER fulfill your inner being. As much as we need scientific observations and evidence for industrial, medical, military, and other advancements, your soul remains unquenched by them.

Religion - CANNOT be approached by scientific methods, based STRICTLY on faith, and trust (remember when the Bible says in Isaiah 55:8 '...my thoughts are not your thoughts, and my ways are not your ways...').

Now why would this omnipresent, omniscient God do that? So that we would TRUST HIS ways, NOT theorize, research, or derive him using our limited human ways
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SPC Safety Technician
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9 y
My soul does just fine with science. Suppose I'm in the minority, though.
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MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca
MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca
9 y
I'd say you're not alone SPC (Join to see). I often find faith a bit hard to swallow on its own merit when you see everything that goes on in this world.
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SPC Nathan Freeman
SPC Nathan Freeman
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MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca, when you consider that God is the ultimate scientist, it's not hard to combine them both. I would encourage you to question everything. Most of the theories behind evolution have been proven false but people keep spouting it like it's gospel.
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PV2 Abbott Shaull
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TO not believe someone out there created and set things into motion seems kinda foolish. Especially when you go from tribe to tribe oral and written history that we know about. All have a story about a Great Flood similar to Noah in the Bible.

Next look at some of the most spectacular victories of the IDF over their hostile since 1947 to 1980. Many times they were at numeric disadvantages, but somehow under some unknown protection won against the odds with there highly trained Armor Corps, Airborne and Special Operation troops to mobilize. Air Force units were able to gain local Air Superiority and keep it along several Fronts at the same time, have the advantage af operating from a central location, disadvantage of having to go out on seek and destroy missions.

Also take for instance the Jewish Faith is the basis for Christianit and Islam. All three worship the same God/Allah. It is really all in the interpetation of their respective view of study they have been taught. Islam is one religion where there is no true supreme leader like we find in many of the Christian Organizations. No Bishops, Priest just Deacons who have shown an ablity to teach the Quaran. nothing else really, and they have only two flavors, you hAve government based on the teachings, or a more liberal one. There is no middle ground.
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SPC Safety Technician
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"TO not believe someone out there created and set things into motion seems kinda foolish." - ad hominem

"Especially when you go from tribe to tribe oral and written history that we know about. All have a story about a Great Flood similar to Noah in the Bible." - false authority, or false attribution. depends on what exactly you meant to prove by that statement.

"Next look at some of the most spectacular victories of the IDF over their hostile since 1947 to 1980. Many times they were at numeric disadvantages, but somehow under some unknown protection won against the odds with there highly trained Armor Corps, Airborne and Special Operation troops to mobilize. Air Force units were able to gain local Air Superiority and keep it along several Fronts at the same time, have the advantage af operating from a central location, disadvantage of having to go out on seek and destroy missions." - special pleading, argument from ignorance.

"Also take for instance the Jewish Faith is the basis for Christianit and Islam. All three worship the same God/Allah." - argument from popularity, then followed by red herrings.

Thanks for helping me brush up on some of the common fallacies perpetrated by religious apologists.
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SSgt Utilities Chief
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Whoa. Touchy subject, to be sure. To put a military perspective on this, it doesn't matter what you believe in, arguments can swing either way- but what everyone wearing the uniform does believe in is goodness. Goodness doesn't have to stem from an organized religion, and more often than not, replaces religion as the spiritual tenet for agnostics and atheists. In my opinion, goodness should be the critical factor to believe in, not an organized religion.

-However, I do believe there is a God, and I, based off observation and personal experience, believe he has a sick sense of humor- but he means well and that's what counts.
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SPC Steve Skaggs
SPC Steve Skaggs
9 y
Funny you called the "all-knowing" omnipotent being HIM. I rather think of him as as her since 'SHE" is the creator of all. Looking up in the sky I can't believe in the "randomness" of our incredible and expanding universe. And I know that she is a she because of Doritos. Way to a man's heart is through the crunchy cheesy goodness of Doritos.
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SSgt Utilities Chief
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SPC Steve Skaggs, I use "Him" as opposed to "It" or "She", because that's what I grew up with.

And to quote George Carlin: “... He - and if there is a God, I am convinced he is a he, because no woman could or would ever f!@k things up this badly.” -George Carlin
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SSgt Utilities Chief
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MAJ Carl Ballinger Sir, I mean no disrespect and I will defend to the death your right to say what you believe, but from a Non-Commissioned Officer's perspective, I find it demoralizing and disturbing that you " ...don't have much use for the Army Values, or any system created by man." As a currently serving member, have you not sworn an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States... Is that not a "system created by man"? And is it not true that the Army's core value of Loyalty, "...geared to Bear true faith and allegiance to the U.S. Constitution, the Army, your unit and other Soldiers"? (Source: http://www.army.mil/values/)

I wrote about two pages more, but I'll just drop the argument here where it lies.
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SPC Nathan Freeman
SPC Nathan Freeman
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The Army Values were Biblical values before there was an army.
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SSG Steven Rollison
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This question seems to be something I ask myself every single day and yet I can't ever seem to really find an answer. I believe that there is something in this universe that exist and is more that just human, I just don't have any facts that it is just one God and he is the same one from the Bible. I used to be down right christian that always tried to argue the existence of God and Jesus, but now I'm all about the facts. The bible tells stories and they are great stories. I just don't let those stories lead my life. I believe that God could exist and I will never stop praying that he does. I let the bible guide my morals but not my beliefs.
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A1C Jared Gonzalez
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Only you can answer that question for yourself.
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SSgt Gacp Cad/Pad
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If there wasn't a God then this life would be pointless, but there is a God and we are all trying to return unto him.
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Life doesn't have to be pointless, anyone can give their life purpose! You just have to choose whatever it is that gets you out of bed in the morning (coffee? haha)
Sgt Data Network Specialist
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im not spending my life trying to appease a story book character...
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PO1 Workcenter Supervisor
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Reading the posts here, those who truly say that they believe in God, and even say they know that God exists as a fact... it seems like many, if not most of them draw this conclusion through personal experience. Their life was saved "miraculously". They had after-death experiences that science cannot explain. These individual experiences, I believe, provide a glimpse of how God operates. I believe that God exists, and that we are here for a purpose. As his children/heirs/etc., we need to progress. I believe that this life on earth is our time to grow, to learn, to experience, and to be tried. I believe that God is all-powerful, and will not allow Himself to be proven scientifically. "By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive". Very poetic, but I believe that this passage, and similar ones, provide insight into God's patterns: Knowledge of God is given solely on an individual basis.

And how is this knowledge given? Simply: Through the holy ghost. Did we think that the holy ghost was included in the Godhead because 3's a catchy number? His role is vital, and putting it into scientific terms: The holy ghost is the medium by which God communicates to us, or more specifically, to our spirits. People will have different feelings/experiences because people are different. Most will have trouble explaining that they just know a thing.

Why does God allow so much evidence against Him? If part of our purpose in this life is to chose Him, how can we chose Him if He is the only choice? How are we expected to choose good when we know not evil? Will we choose "science" or the "still small voice"? Everything must have its opposite, or no true choice can be made.
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SPC Safety Technician
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I'm glad the universe itself doesn't work that way. Otherwise, we'd never understand anything. No rocket-ships or refrigerators. everyone just throwing darts and never knowing if they hit anything. sounds chaotic and irrational.
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PO1 Workcenter Supervisor
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well, I've laid it out as I know it, and for me it is clear: God exists.
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TSgt Terry Hudson
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I don't think this is an appropriate question for this site. Even though it's not the workplace it's a place where a bunch of military personnel talk and discuss topics, just like in the workplace. There's a reason why politics and religion are not to be discussed in the work place and those same reasons should apply here. That's just my opinion.
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SPC Elijah J. Henry, MBA
SPC Elijah J. Henry, MBA
9 y
TSgt Terry Hudson, I've heard that "those who observe the rule not to talk about politics and religion usually discuss sports both politically and religiously."

I prefer to discuss things that matter; if God exists, then that matters more than anything else. If He doesn't, then that's worth knowing, too.

From what I've seen on RP, politics is a very common topic, and this is certainly not the only discussion here tagged 'God' or 'Religion.'
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TSgt Terry Hudson
TSgt Terry Hudson
9 y
SPC Elijah J. Henry, MBA I get what your saying but in that case the topic is sports not religion or politics.
If you see your battle buddies doing something that is technically wrong but everyone looks over it, will you look over it too or will step up and try to fix it?
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SPC Elijah J. Henry, MBA
SPC Elijah J. Henry, MBA
9 y
TSgt Terry Hudson, my point about sports was that they don't really matter, even though many are more devoted to their team or to sports in general than they are to any religious or political view.

Well, you have an opinion that RP should be very different from how it is. I think that if those who designed RP wanted to exclude politics and religion from discussions to make RP more like the workplace, they would have made such a rule, and they probably wouldn't have created the tags 'Politics,' 'Religion,' and 'God.'
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