Posted on Apr 12, 2015
SPC Elijah J. Henry, MBA
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Hand of god
What are the best arguments for or against the existence of God?

I mean an omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, omnibenevolent Supreme Being -- the eternally and necessarily extant Creator of the universe.

Atheists, Theists, Agnostics, Polytheists, Pantheists and anyone else are all welcome to weigh in!
I'm not asking what you believe, I'm asking about the best arguments for or against the existence of God.

To clarify omnibenevolence, I mean simply 'perfect goodness,' not "the quality of being kind and generous towards everyone and everything." CH (CPT) (Join to see)
Posted in these groups: Sistine chapel image of god GodWorld religions 2 ReligionAtheism symbol Atheism
Edited 9 y ago
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TSgt Services
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personally, I believe in God. But I don't see a point in arguing, my best response when someone says they don't believe is, "you're right, you DON'T believe that."
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SPC Elijah J. Henry, MBA
SPC Elijah J. Henry, MBA
9 y
Well, frankly -- with no offense to any who identify as such -- I doubt the existence of atheists.
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SPC Elijah J. Henry, MBA
SPC Elijah J. Henry, MBA
9 y
Cpl Robert Lowes, let's not argue about it, but what I meant was not questioning your existence, but rather your atheism.
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SPC Elijah J. Henry, MBA
SPC Elijah J. Henry, MBA
9 y
That's interesting, Cpl Robert Lowes. I can't say I've heard that one before. Someone else on this discussion suggested that neither side can actually choose one way or the other.
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MSG David Chappell
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I like the argument of if there is no God then the life you lead and your death won't matter but if there is a God will he accept your argument I did not know? Imagine you get a speeding ticket and you tell the judge I did not know I was going so fast or there was a limit. I am sure your argument will be met with an understanding judge. As for me I do believe and will not flip a coin for eternity.
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SPC Patrick Gearardo
SPC Patrick Gearardo
9 y
I believe in God. I do not go to church on a regular basis, can't stand the Catholic services because they are very boring to me. 

When I do get a chance, I will go to Calvary Chapel in Melbourne, FL when I am home and I always feel good when I leave.

Something greater made THIS....ALL OF THIS....who am I to deny that?
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MSgt Electrical Power Production
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Before you can believe that God does not exist you must first believe he does.
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LCDR Naval Aviator
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9 y
"Before you can believe that God does not exist you must first believe he does."
The true Creator is a purple rabbit named Benjamin. In order to not believe in Benjamin's existence, you first have to believe he exists. - Pretty silly circular logic, right? Everybody knows I just made up Benjamin, nobody believes he exists, and nobody had to first believe in him in order to come to that conclusion.

Without being told about any particular religion, people don't just simultaneously come to the same conclusions about their creation. That's not reality.

I'm not saying you're wrong, because I really don't understand which point you were trying to make there; being knowledgeable about someone else's religion doesn't mean you have to first believe it to disbelieve it.
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SSG Buddy Kemper
SSG Buddy Kemper
9 y
Ya'll have KILLED me with this discussion!!!!!!! I've reached my limit on contact requests AND five away for thumbs up in one day!!!!!!!!!! HOOAH!!!!!!!
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SSgt Security Police Supervisor
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9 y
That shows a ridiculous lack of logic. But it is funny, so thanks for making me laugh.
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SPC Safety Technician
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You must first believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster before you can believe it does not exist.

R'Amen.
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SGT James Colwell
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Arguing for or against the existence of God is a fine philosophical debate. Actually arguing for the existence of God with a person who will not acknowledge the possibility is an exercise in futility until said person acknowledges that possibility. Being on the side that professes the existence of God (the God of the Bible) I have narrowed it down to four simple options.
1. If you believe there is no God and there is no God, you lose nothing.
2. If you believe there is a God and there is no God, you lose nothing.
3. If you believe there is no God and there is a God, you lose everything for eternity.
4. If you believe there is a God and there is a God, you stand to gain everything.

Many don't believe there is a God, and that is their right. In looking at these four options, if for no other reason than selfish motives, I would choose to believe in God. Because of what I have studied in the Bible and have experienced in my own life and seen in other's lives, I believe there is a God in Heaven who has deemed me worthy of salvation and has plucked me out of the bondage of sin, simply because He is God, and not because of any great deed on my part, but despite the depravity of my life. Belief in God is not based solely on an intellectual investigation into the physical or even metaphysical evidence. It is a faith-based knowledge as evidenced by Scripture- "Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen." (Hebrews 11:1 ESV).
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SSG Gerald King
SSG Gerald King
7 y
Ahh Yes! The bible. A book written in a time when most of the population sat around and drank wine all day because the water was not safe to drink. Like most stories told around the local bar, it gets better the more times it is told. Great little story, but that is pretty much it!
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PO2 Rev. Frederick C. Mullis, AFI, CFM
PO2 Rev. Frederick C. Mullis, AFI, CFM
7 y
SSG Gerald King - Most authorities believe that the "wine" spoken about in the Bible that were placed in "the new skins" were the un-fermented juices of the grape. the older skins were those juices that were fermented. Plus since there was no industrial waste, the Euphrates, the Tigris, the Nile, the River Jordan, The Sea of Galilee, and all the tributaries that ran into it were exceptionally clean and pristine. The Dead Sea and the Salt marshes were for obvious reasons not drinkable as was the water on the shores of the Great Sea (Mediterranean). So your statement holds no water... (pun intended)
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CPL Leslie Andrews
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I have found comfort & strength in my belief. I also know a lot of Vets who came to know God in a fox hole.
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SSG Gerald King
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I cannot believe that people still accept this fairy tale of some great god. The only reason people create gods is because of their fear of dying. They do not want to accept that when they die, that is it. One and done. You are no more. You are not going to see your loved ones again. When they are dead - they are dead. End of story.
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PV2 Glen Lewis
PV2 Glen Lewis
7 y
I'm pretty much of the same mind; people want something to help them deal with just about anything they fear and this is the one circumstance that we all share. Some folks need a crutch.
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SGT James Colwell
SGT James Colwell
7 y
So you have experiential proof or empirical evidence of your one and done theory? Or is it simply an opinion? I am okay with either, just asking out of curiosity. For me, death has no hold over me. I don't fear death. I'm not excited about the dying process :), but death has no power.
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SSG Gerald King
SSG Gerald King
7 y
Just my belief. One can never know for sure what death will bring. My belief is once you are dead - that is it - you no longer exist - anyplace.
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PO2 Rev. Frederick C. Mullis, AFI, CFM
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As a Disciple of the Most High and Living GOD, I could quote scripture and compare it to the happenings to History to prove HIS existence, and in turn the existence of the Holy Trinity. BUT
I will make it very simple...
IF GOD does not exist, WHY do the Atheists spend so much time and money, trying to prove that someone that they do not believe in does not exist? WHY would they care what anyone else thinks? The answer is, They do know that HE exists. and they hate the fact that Christians and Jews know that He LIVES! and it galls them because they cannot or will not take the time to get to know HIM and love HIM. It is just that simple
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CW3 Brigade Fecc
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Because we care very much about the health, lives, morals, ethics, safety, security, equality, etc... of our fellow man. And siting idly by and doing nothing isn't an option.
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PO2 Rev. Frederick C. Mullis, AFI, CFM
PO2 Rev. Frederick C. Mullis, AFI, CFM
7 y
CW3 (Join to see) - Then learn about the Living GOD and his Son who came to Earth to teach us what Love is. For GOD so loved us that he gave his only Son to die on the cross, that whosoever believes in Him will not die bit have everlasting life.. This beautiful act symbolizes the very act that embodies almost every action that is part of every Citation for the awarding of the Medal of Honor, Silver Star and every other Medal awarded for Valor in the face of the enemy and probably most of the Purple Hearts. Sacrificing one's life for their Brothers and Sisters.
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CW3 Brigade Fecc
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You assume until this moment I didn't know of the fable you speak of?

Except it isn't really a sacrifice is it? The story goes that god who is also the holy ghost and the son sent himself down to earth to die on the cross so he could forgive his creation of the sins he gave them, then resurrected himself and went back up to heaven to sit next to himself.

That isn't at all like a single citation I have ever read. Sacrifice is something that mortals do, not omnipotent, omnipresent beings.
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CW4 Jimmy Gomez
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Here's one argument, You don't have to go far to find God. You just have to open your eyes.
But, I'm surprised no one brings up or questions the existence of Satan. I guess it's because his existence is easily seen on every news channel.

Well, enjoy.

How the World’s Most Notorious Atheist Changed His Mind
Dr. Benjamin Wiker
Antony Flew

EDITOR'S NOTE: For the last half of the twentieth century, Antony Flew (1923-2010) was the world's most famous atheist. Long before Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens, and Sam Harris began taking swipes at religion, Flew was the preeminent spokesman for unbelief.
However in 2004, he shocked the world by announcing he had come to believe in God. While never embracing Christianity—Flew only believed in the deistic, Aristotelian conception of God—he became one of the most high-profile and surprising atheist converts. In 2007, he recounted his conversion in a book titled There is a God: How the World's Most Notorious Atheist Changed His Mind. Some critics suggested Flew's mental capacity had declined and therefore we should question the credibility of his conversion. Others hailed Flew's book as a legitimate and landmark publication.
A couple months before the book's release, Flew sat down with Strange Notions contributor Dr. Benjamin Wiker for an interview about his book, his conversion, and the reasons that led him to God. Read below and enjoy!


Dr. Benjamin Wiker: You say in There is a God, that "it may well be that no one is as surprised as I am that my exploration of the Divine has after all these years turned from denial...to discovery." Everyone else was certainly very surprised as well, perhaps all the more so since on our end, it seemed so sudden. But in There is a God, we find that it was actually a very gradual process—a "two decade migration," as you call it. God was the conclusion of a rather long argument, then. But wasn't there a point in the "argument" where you found yourself suddenly surprised by the realization that "There is a God" after all? So that, in some sense, you really did "hear a Voice that says" in the evidence itself "'Can you hear me now?'"
Antony Flew: There were two factors in particular that were decisive. One was my growing empathy with the insight of Einstein and other noted scientists that there had to be an Intelligence behind the integrated complexity of the physical Universe. The second was my own insight that the integrated complexity of life itself—which is far more complex than the physical Universe—can only be explained in terms of an Intelligent Source. I believe that the origin of life and reproduction simply cannot be explained from a biological standpoint despite numerous efforts to do so. With every passing year, the more that was discovered about the richness and inherent intelligence of life, the less it seemed likely that a chemical soup could magically generate the genetic code. The difference between life and non-life, it became apparent to me, was ontological and not chemical. The best confirmation of this radical gulf is Richard Dawkins' comical effort to argue in The God Delusion that the origin of life can be attributed to a "lucky chance." If that's the best argument you have, then the game is over. No, I did not hear a Voice. It was the evidence itself that led me to this conclusion.
Wiker: You are famous for arguing for a presumption of atheism, i.e., as far as arguments for and against the existence of God, the burden of proof lies with the theist. Given that you believe that you only followed the evidence where it led, and it led to theism, it would seem that things have now gone the other way, so that the burden of proof lies with the atheist. He must prove that God doesn't exist. What are your thoughts on that?
There Is a GodFlew: I note in my book that some philosophers indeed have argued in the past that the burden of proof is on the atheist. I think the origins of the laws of nature and of life and the Universe point clearly to an intelligent Source. The burden of proof is on those who argue to the contrary.
Wiker: As for evidence, you cite a lot of the most recent science, yet you remark that your discovery of the Divine did not come through "experiments and equations," but rather, "through an understanding of the structures they unveil and map." Could you explain? Does that mean that the evidence that led you to God is not really, at heart, scientific?
Flew: It was empirical evidence, the evidence uncovered by the sciences. But it was a philosophical inference drawn from the evidence. Scientists as scientists cannot make these kinds of philosophical inferences. They have to speak as philosophers when they study the philosophical implications of empirical evidence.
Wiker: You are obviously aware of the spate of recent books by such atheists as Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens. They think that those who believe in God are behind the times. But you seem to be politely asserting that they are ones who are behind the times, insofar as the latest scientific evidence tends strongly toward—or perhaps even demonstrates—a theistic conclusion. Is that a fair assessment of your position?
Flew: Yes, indeed. I would add that Dawkins is selective to the point of dishonesty when he cites the views of scientists on the philosophical implications of the scientific data.
Two noted philosophers, one an agnostic (Anthony Kenny) and the other an atheist (Thomas Nagel), recently pointed out that Dawkins has failed to address three major issues that ground the rational case for God. As it happens, these are the very same issues that had driven me to accept the existence of a God: the laws of nature, life with its teleological organization, and the existence of the Universe.
Wiker: You point out that the existence of God and the existence of evil are actually two different issues, which would therefore require two distinct investigations. But in the popular literature—even in much of the philosophical literature—the two issues are regularly conflated. Especially among atheists, the presumption is that the non-existence of God simply follows upon the existence of evil. What is the danger of such conflation? How as a theist do you now respond?
Flew: I should clarify that I am a deist. I do not accept any claim of divine revelation though I would be happy to study any such claim (and continue to do so in the case of Christianity). For the deist, the existence of evil does not pose a problem because the deist God does not intervene in the affairs of the world. The religious theist, of course, can turn to the free-will defense (in fact I am the one who first coined the phrase free-will defense). Another relatively recent change in my philosophical views is my affirmation of the freedom of the will.
Wiker: According to There is a God, you are not what might be called a "thin theist," that is, the evidence led you not merely to accept that there is a "cause" of nature, but "to accept the existence of a self-existent, immutable, immaterial, omnipotent, and omniscient Being." How far away are you, then, from accepting this Being as a person rather than a set of characteristics, however accurate they may be? (I'm thinking of C. S. Lewis' remark that a big turning point for him, in accepting Christianity, was in realizing that God was not a "place"—a set of characteristics, like a landscape—but a person.)
Flew: I accept the God of Aristotle who shares all the attributes you cite. Like Lewis I believe that God is a person but not the sort of person with whom you can have a talk. It is the ultimate being, the Creator of the Universe.
Wiker: Do you plan to write a follow-up book to There is a God?
Flew: As I said in opening the book, this is my last will and testament.
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SGT James Colwell
SGT James Colwell
7 y
That was well said!
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Cpl Lawrence Lavictoire
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God exist! Arguments are unnecessary! Every human decides for themselves. Choose wisely child!
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SGT James Colwell
SGT James Colwell
7 y
Preach it brother!
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MSgt Security Business Analyst
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Faith is the best arguement I can come up with. IF you have faith in something you do not have to see it in order to believe in it. I feel love, but I have never truly seen love in the flesh. I have seen examples of it, and how people act when they are hit by it, but I have never seen love with my very own eyes. I have never seen a fart either, but I do know and sense when quite a few of them are there.

Does God exist? I believe he does. I have faith that he does. I have felt his presense.
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