Posted on Mar 12, 2020
Does having received a draft notice make someone a veteran?
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Last night a person that I know from a local motorcycle group (not Legion) said that the group honored her father who recently passed with a flag line. She said that they pressured her into the flag line even though her father never served in the military and she told them that. The headquarters President justified it by saying, “Well he received a draft notice, didn’t he?”
Later in the conversation, she mentioned one of our mutual friends as being a veteran and that he would not have allowed anything like stolen valor. I told her he was not a veteran and that we actually both belonged to the same American Legion and he grew up hanging around the American Legion post, but he is a member of the Sons of the American Legion; he is not a Legionnaire, not a dual member, and he is not a veteran. We argued for about five minutes over this and I finally hung up.
I’m returning my colors tomorrow; I never even wore them but I don’t feel comfortable with this group now.
I see the draft notice as different from actually having served. Am I wrong?
03/16/2020 Edit: Yesterday, one of the members contacted me back and clarified, "The flag lines are for anyone we want to honor, first responders, military, and our families are very high on the list." As they say here in Phila, "I'm feelin some type of way about this." I told him he needs to educate the entire group on who their flag lines are for, and as a representative of the organization, the secretary should know better.
03/23/2020 Edit: The moto group is NOT the Legion Riders -just a local moto org that promotes themselves a veterans and first responders group)
09/07/20 Edit: Well, after much anxiety, I wanted to update about this. Covid hit and I haven't been back to that group. The Sgt at Arms felt I shouldn't make any hasty decisions, but I just knew it wasn't a right fit. More recently, after watching the group respond to peaceful BLM march with "No they don't" when marchers proclaimed, "Black Lives Matter," and screaming at the marchers "Black Lives Splatter," display their flag line as if fellow protesting citizens aren't patriotic, use the local VFW with confederate flags and a woman veteran screaming and flipping off protesters, and watching two of their trucks dump black diesel smoke right in front of peacefully marching protesters, I cut ties with the group by initially removing the vast majority from facebook. The very next day, their Sgt At Arms felt the need to send me a private message on FB, "I see you unfriended me, friend," with a big ole thumbs up, which I ignored. A few days later, he sent me this big long Trump rant about how he was supporting troops (he never served) and I let him have it. I told him I don't care who he votes for, but his behavior doesn't represent me, and if he contacted me again, I'd file harassment charges -and I blocked him on messenger. Two days later he sends a text, "I've been ordered to collect our patches from you. Namely our backpatch and alpha chapter." I told him I burned them and that if he contacted me again, I'd involve the police. So that's that. Always go with your gut.
Later in the conversation, she mentioned one of our mutual friends as being a veteran and that he would not have allowed anything like stolen valor. I told her he was not a veteran and that we actually both belonged to the same American Legion and he grew up hanging around the American Legion post, but he is a member of the Sons of the American Legion; he is not a Legionnaire, not a dual member, and he is not a veteran. We argued for about five minutes over this and I finally hung up.
I’m returning my colors tomorrow; I never even wore them but I don’t feel comfortable with this group now.
I see the draft notice as different from actually having served. Am I wrong?
03/16/2020 Edit: Yesterday, one of the members contacted me back and clarified, "The flag lines are for anyone we want to honor, first responders, military, and our families are very high on the list." As they say here in Phila, "I'm feelin some type of way about this." I told him he needs to educate the entire group on who their flag lines are for, and as a representative of the organization, the secretary should know better.
03/23/2020 Edit: The moto group is NOT the Legion Riders -just a local moto org that promotes themselves a veterans and first responders group)
09/07/20 Edit: Well, after much anxiety, I wanted to update about this. Covid hit and I haven't been back to that group. The Sgt at Arms felt I shouldn't make any hasty decisions, but I just knew it wasn't a right fit. More recently, after watching the group respond to peaceful BLM march with "No they don't" when marchers proclaimed, "Black Lives Matter," and screaming at the marchers "Black Lives Splatter," display their flag line as if fellow protesting citizens aren't patriotic, use the local VFW with confederate flags and a woman veteran screaming and flipping off protesters, and watching two of their trucks dump black diesel smoke right in front of peacefully marching protesters, I cut ties with the group by initially removing the vast majority from facebook. The very next day, their Sgt At Arms felt the need to send me a private message on FB, "I see you unfriended me, friend," with a big ole thumbs up, which I ignored. A few days later, he sent me this big long Trump rant about how he was supporting troops (he never served) and I let him have it. I told him I don't care who he votes for, but his behavior doesn't represent me, and if he contacted me again, I'd file harassment charges -and I blocked him on messenger. Two days later he sends a text, "I've been ordered to collect our patches from you. Namely our backpatch and alpha chapter." I told him I burned them and that if he contacted me again, I'd involve the police. So that's that. Always go with your gut.
The American Legion
Motorcycles
Selective Service (the Draft)
Stolen Valor
Edited >1 y ago
Posted 4 y ago
Responses: 93
SrA Sheila Holmes You are correct. Receiving a draft notice is not the same as being a veteran.
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Sgt (Join to see)
SGT Charles Masterson - I was responding to the post which was referring to someone that received a draft notice, did not serve, being called a veteran. I am saying that receiving a draft notice is not the same as serving. many folks received notices that did not serve. You served and have a DD-214, so you are of course a veteran.
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SGT Charles Masterson
Since explained, I totally agree with you. How can some one consider themselves a veteran having not served is beyond me. To me that DD-214 and that Honorable Discharge says you are a veteran. Not the From the president of the United States; Greetings, you are hereby ordered to report for induction then telling you where you must report .a draft notice is only a piece of paper that does not make you a veteran.
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CDR Kenneth Kaiser
[I received a letter from Publishers Clearing House saying that I could be the winner of 5000 a week for life. Didn't happen. Same applies in this case~1490037: SGT Charles Masterson] -
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Draft Notice as in "Congratulations, you are hereby drafted. Please report to your nearest induction center"
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Sgt Jim Mullins
I received my draft notice at Parris Island while in Marine boot camp in 1963. The Drill Sgt. was not happy. He punched me I did a lot of push ups. Evidently it caused him some paper work...
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SFC John Fourquet
MSG (Join to see) - the draft ended in 1973. You may have filled out your selective service registration.
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Sgt Ed Allen
Sounds like my brother. He, and his 2 best buddies, decided to join the Navy because they knew that their draft numbers were coming up. The then went to the Navy recruiter to make sure they got to choose the branch of server. Reported to NTC San Diego and the draft was cancelled 2 days later.
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Sgt Greg Nowark
SFC John Fourquet - (might have filled out Selective Service registration) Oh, no, will there be another forum about "I walked by a recruiter yesterday, my mommy says that makes a me a veteran?"
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SrA Sheila Holmes Amazing ... I'm in awe of their 'buffoonery'.
(I've been waiting for 25 years to use that word in a sentence.)
Please thank them for the opportunity.
(I've been waiting for 25 years to use that word in a sentence.)
Please thank them for the opportunity.
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SGT John Graham
Patience is what I call my time planning vengeance when needed. That said, there were many times on active duty where the word buffoonery could be used. There were many types of individuals, some outstanding, some mediocre, some idiots, and a few well practiced in the art of bufoonery. Getting a draft notice doesn't make one a veteran. Not now or ever! I am proud to be a veteran. I was a R.E.M.F. as such we kept the spear ready. Not glamorous but that is where I ended up.
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SrA Sheila Holmes Really??? "...received a draft notice..."! Are you kidding me?
The answer is NO the person is NOT a VETERAN. If they did NOT serve (aka have a VALID DD-214) to prove their service or they have VALID EVIDENCE from DMDC or DFAS or even a Veterans CARD from the VA, all of which are cross-referenced then this is STOLEN VALOR on the part of the "...motorcycle group..."!
I have no problem honoring an immediate family member (e.g. parent, grandparent, uncle, aunt, 1st cousin, etc., aka someone somewhat immediate), BUT if say for the sake of argument my great, great, great, great, great grandfather on my mother's side served in the American Revolution and NO-ONE on her side of the family or on my dad's side ever served since that point in history that DOES NOT, IMHO, entitle me to be a "family member" of a former service member just to get special treatment, just because of that "very distant" relationship. It is fine to speak about your family tree, but to say your family served and the ONLY connection TODAY is to someone's military service >240 yrs ago, seems sad, again IMHO.
Finally, if someone is going to serve in a leadership role (aka Organization Secretary) they should be armed with the process for providing a flag that should be SOP for the organization and documented in a flyer, tri-fold pamphlet, official bylaws, etc. something, that person or any member of that club can have. Otherwise, people can make whatever decisions without regard to any set of standards.
Frankly, if they approached me in this manner I'd consider reporting this under the "Stolen Valor Act" after consulting legal council. My tolerance for this kind of behavior by those who have NOT served and think they are justified in lumping in kind of LAME logic is somewhere below Whale crap at the bottom of the ocean and the actual ocean floor!!!
FYI, on both sides of my family for >240 yrs members of my family have proudly served including my father during Korea. So, I am not impressed with the "...motorcycle club's..." attitude! Besides, I know "Real Bikers" that would not be impressed either!!!
COL Mikel J. Burroughs, Lt Col Charlie Brown, Maj Marty Hogan
The answer is NO the person is NOT a VETERAN. If they did NOT serve (aka have a VALID DD-214) to prove their service or they have VALID EVIDENCE from DMDC or DFAS or even a Veterans CARD from the VA, all of which are cross-referenced then this is STOLEN VALOR on the part of the "...motorcycle group..."!
I have no problem honoring an immediate family member (e.g. parent, grandparent, uncle, aunt, 1st cousin, etc., aka someone somewhat immediate), BUT if say for the sake of argument my great, great, great, great, great grandfather on my mother's side served in the American Revolution and NO-ONE on her side of the family or on my dad's side ever served since that point in history that DOES NOT, IMHO, entitle me to be a "family member" of a former service member just to get special treatment, just because of that "very distant" relationship. It is fine to speak about your family tree, but to say your family served and the ONLY connection TODAY is to someone's military service >240 yrs ago, seems sad, again IMHO.
Finally, if someone is going to serve in a leadership role (aka Organization Secretary) they should be armed with the process for providing a flag that should be SOP for the organization and documented in a flyer, tri-fold pamphlet, official bylaws, etc. something, that person or any member of that club can have. Otherwise, people can make whatever decisions without regard to any set of standards.
Frankly, if they approached me in this manner I'd consider reporting this under the "Stolen Valor Act" after consulting legal council. My tolerance for this kind of behavior by those who have NOT served and think they are justified in lumping in kind of LAME logic is somewhere below Whale crap at the bottom of the ocean and the actual ocean floor!!!
FYI, on both sides of my family for >240 yrs members of my family have proudly served including my father during Korea. So, I am not impressed with the "...motorcycle club's..." attitude! Besides, I know "Real Bikers" that would not be impressed either!!!
COL Mikel J. Burroughs, Lt Col Charlie Brown, Maj Marty Hogan
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SrA Sheila Holmes
CPO Nate S. Incorrect. I ride with server groups. I also ride with an all women’s MC. This group that I’m discussing I’ve ridden with several times over the years but have not been one of their latched members. They’re a non-profit.
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CPO Nate S.
SrA Sheila Holmes - Understood!
Also, you should be able to edit "your" typos. Every time someone responses and I check what the write I reread my original posts and see grammar and spelling typos that I am able to fix. Typically I do this from my laptop screen. If you are one a phone, I agree it is a little more difficult. That is why if I post from my phone that I go typically go back and fix these issues. If you are talking about correcting other people's writing, that presents issues specific to the 1st Amendment. I am not convinced you are speaking from that perspective. But, as an editor I am sure you'd like to see everyone be more grammar and spelling conscious.
Have a great evening.
Also, you should be able to edit "your" typos. Every time someone responses and I check what the write I reread my original posts and see grammar and spelling typos that I am able to fix. Typically I do this from my laptop screen. If you are one a phone, I agree it is a little more difficult. That is why if I post from my phone that I go typically go back and fix these issues. If you are talking about correcting other people's writing, that presents issues specific to the 1st Amendment. I am not convinced you are speaking from that perspective. But, as an editor I am sure you'd like to see everyone be more grammar and spelling conscious.
Have a great evening.
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(Join to see)
Stolen Valor on the part of the motorcycle club? That doesn't even make sense and a club can't steal Valor. A person can, though.
Also, maybe calm down with the capslock key. We can understand what you mean without you screaming random words throughout. There's no need to try to emphasize those words if that, was your intent. It makes no difference in how what you posted is read.
Also, maybe calm down with the capslock key. We can understand what you mean without you screaming random words throughout. There's no need to try to emphasize those words if that, was your intent. It makes no difference in how what you posted is read.
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You are completely right. I too quit a well know group over simular reasons.
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SrA Sheila Holmes
Mind my asking what the incident was? Feel free to direct message. No need to mention the group name; I’m just curious what different people’s lines in the sand are.
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SGT Randell Rose
SAR Holmes there was a request for a flag line and escort of a veteran with a dishonorable. I was the Ride Captain in charge of the are and declined the mission. My decision was overruled by the Senior Ride Captian ( No military experience) because the guy was a good old boy in his Gold wing club.
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No he didn't serve, Every kid I grew up with signed up instead of waiting for the draft notice in an effort to get the mos we wanted, by 1973 , we were all in the service
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MAJ Byron Oyler
My Father did the same thing in 1964. He went in to be a mechanic, was stuck as a holdover, and they offered him medic school to leave basic sooner. His Grandma got him back from Vietnam early to attend college and he became a nurse. You could easily say the draft affected my family for two generations as I attended the same nursing school thirty years later.
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I see having served, no matter the circumstances. If you wore the uniform and received an honorable discharge, you are a Veteran that has served.
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CPT Lawrence Cable
1SG (Anonymous) - A lot of people got notices that never made the painted feet, Even though we were supposedly evaluated when they classified you.
If you had been active duty or active reserve Navy (Military), you are exempt for Selective Service.
There hasn't been a Draft Law since 1975. And how old were you when you joined?
If you had been active duty or active reserve Navy (Military), you are exempt for Selective Service.
There hasn't been a Draft Law since 1975. And how old were you when you joined?
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CPT Lawrence Cable
PO1 H Gene Lawrence - Yes, you still have to register unless you fell into that void from 1975 until the 1980 Selective Service Act, but there isn't even a Draft Provision in the Legislation. So the legislation makes you register in case the need to draft comes up again.
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CPT Lawrence Cable
1SG (Anonymous) - Not only didn't you need to register, you are like me and joined before the MSO was eight years, although you served over that as did I. So you didn't even have any military obligation left either.
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My uncle's draft notice came 2 weeks after he died. Does that make him a Veteran, posthumously?
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