Posted on Aug 8, 2015
Does it bother you to see Soldiers in ACUs during accountability formation prior to morning PT?
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SMA Daily considers morning PT his sanctity time. http://www.armytimes.com/story/military/careers/army/2015/04/20/sma-dan-dailey-physical-fitness-plan/25934579/
I just watched a young (first-time enlister) get flagged for failing a record height and weight. I noticed that he misses a lot of morning PT because he has medical appointments for the very thing that causes him to be on profile. I think the Army has lost it's focus towards the value of having morning PT conducted. I believe that this is one of the most important training events of the day and all else (other than directed missions) should work around PT, not the other way around. I'm tired of hearing about leaders mandating early morning meetings during this time. I want to be with my Soldiers and assess their athleticism while building comradery. Am I over-reacting? I don't think I am.
I just watched a young (first-time enlister) get flagged for failing a record height and weight. I noticed that he misses a lot of morning PT because he has medical appointments for the very thing that causes him to be on profile. I think the Army has lost it's focus towards the value of having morning PT conducted. I believe that this is one of the most important training events of the day and all else (other than directed missions) should work around PT, not the other way around. I'm tired of hearing about leaders mandating early morning meetings during this time. I want to be with my Soldiers and assess their athleticism while building comradery. Am I over-reacting? I don't think I am.
Posted in these groups: 
Accountability
Physical Training
Accountability Physical Training
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 19
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There's a lot of factors at play here.
Let's look at a couple pragmatic ones, like scheduling of appointments. Scheduling them at the beginning and end of days "just makes sense" as it doesn't interrupt the normal workday. Most leaders will "prefer" if not "insist" on that. Losing someone for several hours in the middle of the day just creates more issues than it is worth, because of inconvenience.
Now that said, PT does not have to be conducted in the morning. We do that as a matter of convenience as well. Just like we are scheduling other appointments. We could just as easily do it pre or post chow, or at the end of the day. We choose to do it in the morning to eliminate other conflicts.
Although we used to have Unit PT in the mornings 0600-0700, when we did squad/section or platoon level PT we would vary it up throughout the day. This allowed us to have a more robust training schedule and avoid issues like the one you mention above.
Let's look at a couple pragmatic ones, like scheduling of appointments. Scheduling them at the beginning and end of days "just makes sense" as it doesn't interrupt the normal workday. Most leaders will "prefer" if not "insist" on that. Losing someone for several hours in the middle of the day just creates more issues than it is worth, because of inconvenience.
Now that said, PT does not have to be conducted in the morning. We do that as a matter of convenience as well. Just like we are scheduling other appointments. We could just as easily do it pre or post chow, or at the end of the day. We choose to do it in the morning to eliminate other conflicts.
Although we used to have Unit PT in the mornings 0600-0700, when we did squad/section or platoon level PT we would vary it up throughout the day. This allowed us to have a more robust training schedule and avoid issues like the one you mention above.
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Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
MSgt Marvin Kinderknecht - Think of it like a Fuel Tank. You don't have to be "Full" but you don't want to be running on "Empty" either.
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MSgt Marvin Kinderknecht
I agree. To many "energy bars, etc" Of course I want a "full tank" if I am going to fly. After reading all these comments on RP, i am getting a greater appreciation of the Army!! Go guys go. Pearl harbor Day today.
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MSgt Marvin Kinderknecht
Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS - Hey Sgt. If you can't be proud of who you are, you can always be proud of WHAT you are!! Take that to the bank.
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Not only is conditioning important, it is part of the Service members job.
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Lt Col (Join to see)
1stSgt (Join to see) - I'm an officer, in a unit full of officers. The highest ranking enlisted person in the unit is an E-5. Sadly, I don't have the equivalent of a Gunny.
On the bright side, the med group did send a couple folks for several hours in the morning to give us flu shots.
On the bright side, the med group did send a couple folks for several hours in the morning to give us flu shots.
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1stSgt (Join to see)
Lt Col (Join to see) , no reason why an E5 can't do that simple coordination. He just needs a good O3 to back his play. Semper Fidelis, Skipper.
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In the event this comes up, a little chat with the Soldier's NCO will ensure that his PT session gets done daily despite appointments. Plenty of time in a day, after all.
A more focused session targeting the Soldier's deficiencies is more productive anyway.
I'll bet the appointment conflict goes away...
A more focused session targeting the Soldier's deficiencies is more productive anyway.
I'll bet the appointment conflict goes away...
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MSG (Join to see)
Great response. I know it's a leadership issue, but why should the leader have to work around the early appointment. I'm not talking about the "once-in-a-while" appointments. I'm there ready to go at the Commander's schedule PT time. Should I allow Soldiers to miss specialized training and be told to make it up during the day? As a leader, I know every minute of my day is filled and my family is waiting for me to come home. I don't just blame the Soldiers, I think external agencies have no appreciation of the importance of morning PT.
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1SG (Join to see)
MSG (Join to see), at issue here is a Soldier that fails to meet the standard and his/her apparent desire to schedule appointments during PT. It could be that the sick call/ clinic hours happen to be in that timeframe. It is that way on many posts.
I would suggest using one of my tactics. I scheduled remedial PT at 1730. No training schedule conflicts (minus an FTX) and all of the clinics are closed. A targeted training session focused on the "build" phase is more beneficial to the Soldiers than the "maintain" phase exercises in unit PT anyway. Nobody wants to be there at 1730, so all are a bit more motivated.
A determined NCO could get to the bottom of the attempts to evade PT, but really the goal should be to change the Soldier's body composition and attitude.
I would suggest using one of my tactics. I scheduled remedial PT at 1730. No training schedule conflicts (minus an FTX) and all of the clinics are closed. A targeted training session focused on the "build" phase is more beneficial to the Soldiers than the "maintain" phase exercises in unit PT anyway. Nobody wants to be there at 1730, so all are a bit more motivated.
A determined NCO could get to the bottom of the attempts to evade PT, but really the goal should be to change the Soldier's body composition and attitude.
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I hate getting up before the birds and doing exercise. My body is cold and stiff and I have not had any energy supply (food) for 6-8 hours. I find that I am more motivated, and do better workouts when I do them in the late afternoon or early evening. I know that the summer heat makes this more difficult, and I often find myself doing cardio late in the night when it is hot. I have been to AT where we try to do morning PT and I have been to AT where we are trusted to show up at the work site at given time and do PT on our own. Maybe it's because I have been part-time for so many years, but I really like the do it on your on schedule.
As far as camaraderie building, I have yet to see the situation where you don't get at least a few responses to "I'm going on a run..anyone want to join me", finding workout partners for the free weights that someone inevitably brings to AT.
As far as camaraderie building, I have yet to see the situation where you don't get at least a few responses to "I'm going on a run..anyone want to join me", finding workout partners for the free weights that someone inevitably brings to AT.
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No, it never bothered me. We all had reasons for missing morning formations on occasion. While unit PT is important, bottom line is that passing the APFT and H&W are individual responsibilities. I think you make some very valid points especially about evaluating your soldiers and building comradery. Other than sick call, not sure why medical appointments would be that early in the AM.
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SFC (Join to see)
I understand that extenuating circumstances may arise to keep a Soldier from doing PT. But when it becomes a pattern and their score is suffering, more attention should be paid to that individual. Senior ranking Soldiers these days are the most guilty of this, as they see that they are above the regulation... This should not stand.
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COL Ted Mc
SFC (Join to see) - Staff; Nothing "motivates" a Col to do PT like having a BGen leading it.
Nothing "motivates" a BGen to do PT like having a SSgt leading it.
Play nice boys and take turns.
Nothing "motivates" a BGen to do PT like having a SSgt leading it.
Play nice boys and take turns.
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COL Ted Mc
CSM Charles Hayden Passed 7/29/2025 - Sergeant Major; I always loved the Airborne. Their simple, childlike, faith that the trucks would actually be at the drop zone was so refreshing to a cynic like myself.
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I'll be 100% honest and some of you might agree. Physical training with the unit is absolutely useless. The whole concept of training is lost 99.9% of the time. In the interest of decreasing numbers, let's get work call set at 0800 and you pt on your own. Take pt test quarterly, and those who didn't take their own time to prepare... Well see Ya. I fully agree it's a SMs personal responsibility, I also feel that it's a waist of time at unit level. Your thoughts.
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MSG (Join to see)
Nice and honest response. However, on the Army side, we put an invested interest towards ensuring that all measures are taken to take care of Soldiers. I have maintained an excellent PT score for the past 8 years and do Army PT only in the morning (my family owns my evenings and my MOS owns the day). I know it's a personal responsibility, but as leaders, don't we have to teach Soldiers responsibility and discipline? I know it may be innate for you, but not are as astute as you. So does that mean they need to be kicked out. I failed one APFT in my career (many moons ago) and it was my NCO who worked with me and didn't "see ya". I appreciate your thoughts, but many Soldiers are not gifted with athleticism and just to get a 250 is hard enough for them. I'm not sure how you lose 99.9% of training concept. PT is pretty straight forward to me. Get out there, be motivated and smoke the crap out of yourself.
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SGT (Join to see)
Right so that's exactly it. Running to the slowest man, injury city. A endurance session being filled with comments that we need to consider others. I have been banned from giving pt because I broke some fat folks off... They might have been in a leadership position. Thing is that I'm not fantastic at pt, I'm rather average. My improvement lives in the gym. It always has. My senior leaders are fit, junior enlisted are fit, 98% of them. Those that aren't, know it and are on their way out. It's the mid line of leadership where the failure is. Now I agree with all of you as far as pt programs go they can be absolutely fantastic. Best unit of my career was in Washington, I looked forward to pt, it was absolutely fantastic and the leadership had one goal in mind. Get you as close to passing out as possible. It was painful and very challenging, I loved it. This was 6 years and several units ago. Now the intent is there but results just aren't. FSC mentality in the support world only works in FSCs. Everywhere else I look crazy. Really looking forward to going back to a combat unit.
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Cpl Wydell Adams
In the Marines, unit PT is pretty pointless.. we do a 10 mile run in the morning at the slowest Marine's pace.. that equals a very slow jog for alot of us. That's a sure way to get Marines in medical.
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I understand the importance of PT but whenever I was injured I scheduled all my physical therapy appointments during PT. I did this because of over zealous NCO'S and other leadership. Having a run at own pace and distance profile and the 1SG turns the whole formation around and picks you up was one instance. So check yourself and your Soldiers and make sure you are soing right by them. I did 20yrs and had a hip replacement at year 16 then I went to Ft Campbell and the leadership tried to pressure badger and threaten me to go to air assault school. For 2yrs they made my life miserable. Enough ranting.
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My leaders have always said that PT isn't used to get in shape or stay in shape. Personally, I think PT is a waste of time outside of efforts to improve teamwork. I could get a much better and personalized workout in the gym by myself. Yes, some soldiers intentionally schedule appointments at this time. In Hawaii, it's best to schedule appointments first thing in the morning because that's the easy way to deal with parking. You save a large chunk of time by going early in the morning instead of going to work, commuting to the appointment and then commuting back to work. We also have to realize there are limitations on the availability of appointments.
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I think the problem start with seniors been lazy... Crap role down hill. Too many platoon sergeants show up in duty uniform because they have stuff going on. common now!!!
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