Posted on Jan 29, 2014
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UCMJ
Marijuana
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Some of these responses, while I appreciate how sincere they are, are completely incorrect and based off of inexperience. As a SME with 29 years of extensive experience with the effects of weed on all ages (meaning my whole dang family has smoked weed my entire life), I guarantee it is not what some folks think it is.<div><br></div><div>Bottom line, if you're against it because it affects one's mentality and performance, then be against any and all stimulants to include percocets and vicodine. If you really think weed still affects your performance 72 hours after smoking it, then you're referring to weed that has been laced. </div><div><br></div><div>I have done far crazier, stupider and more careless things while being drunk than my brother has while being higher than a kite. </div>
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SSG Delanda Hunt
If you want to smoke weed get the hell out of the Military and don't let the door hit you in the ass.
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A1C (Join to see)
Excuse me but all I'm seeing is old people stuck in their "back in my day" mindset. Once upon a time alcohol was prohibited and once it was federally legal new laws and regulations had to be formed. Such regulations are not drinking 12 hours before a shift...not drinking in uniform..etc. It's still people who don't give 2 flying fucks. It will be people that will abide by the rules and it will be people who won't but I can guarantee that if weed was legal there would be more people joining the service. I've never heard anyone say oh I don't want to join the military because I won't be able to smoke Crack no more or shoot up. Before I joined the military I smoked weed for 2 years straight. I scored higher than more than 3/4 of my BMT flight if not all. Your not a dumb ass if you smoke weed. Just like your not a dumb ass if you drink or smoke cigarettes. But self control is something you have to have also. Why do you think it's programs like adapt around. People abuse things and after my 2 years of smoking weed everyday I was able to walk away from it because I knew the military didn't tolerate it and I had to sacrifice the one thing I love for something I loved more and that was money. I always hated drinking because drinking is more dangerous. How many people die a year from alcohol withdrawal or a drunk driver. Now compare those to how many people died from overdosing and or withdrawal from marjuanna..i can tell you the answer to that easy and that number is 0. No one has overdosed and no one has died from withdrawal because it is not possible. Even though it's an opinion ask a cop who they would rather have...a person high off weed a person sloppy drunk. Drunk people are aggressive. I would rather a bunch of soldiers walking around with pop tarts singing about peace and love than have a bunch of soldiers drunk and angry. I've personally seen alcohol ruin more careers than marjuanna and I haven't even been in a year. People get the fucking shakes from not drinking alcohol (if they are addicted) please tell me one withdrawal symptom of marjuanna that is not similar to smoking cigarettes. You may feel irritable and upset but you ain't fucking shaking and cold sweating you military people make me fucking sick with all of your bull shit "not behind me with a gun" the fuck out of here who is drinking with a gun in their hand. WHO?! Shit I don't want no one behind me under the influence if my life is partially in their hands. But what they do on their off time AS LONG AS it don't not get in the way of them being an important role in their team has nothing to do with them going to work everyday and doing their job. Just like in the civillian world your boss don't come in drunk my supervisor don't come in drunk. Stop turning all these smart minds away because once you all retire who are we going to have? Most of the people I've talked to had tried weed at least twice so I guess the new generation of soldiers are not trust worth or all former drug addicts to the old birds. Please do more research because you should like Windows 7...old and outdated.
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COL Jon Lopey
I respect your opinion but the marijuana of today is much more harmful than that of a few years ago. THC levels for smoked varieties range from 12 to 35% in my county and the concentrates ranges from 60 to 95%+. Marijuana is causing serious crime, health, social, and environmental problems in my state (CA). Marijuana is associated with increased mental health problems, suicides, fatal accidents, homelessness, and even violent crimes, largely because of its potency. I've been in law enforcement for 43-years and the legalization of it in CA for medicinal and now recreational purposes is a disaster. CA is providing up to 80% of illegal product to the rest of the nation because the marijuana industry is largely unwilling or unable to comply with various state and federal laws. It is a psychotropic drug and virtually anyone I have known or encountered on the streets that use it regularly or even moderately suffers adverse impacts. Scientific studies substantiate what I have summarized here - Ask Mom's Strong - an organization of mothers whose sons and daughters have died because of marijuana use and you'll get a better perspective on the issue. Again, I respect the opinion of others but if you look at the facts, including peer-reviewed studies, you will see it for what it really is - A dangerous drug that helps no one for the most part, except for a very few. COL L
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COL Jon Lopey
A1C (Join to see) - A1C: You bring up some valid points but my perspective, as a 35+year veteran of the military (enlisted and officer) and after 43-years of law enforcement experience tells me the military is a special place and we have moral and ethical standards that should not be breached, which includes abstaining from excessive use of any legal substance and avoidance of all illicit drugs. Marijuana is a violation of federal law and in my opinion, it is largely harmful to those who use it. Scientific studies link marijuana (increasingly) because of the high THC levels with crime, health problems, mental health disorders, suicide, and other life-related problems. Anyone I have known that uses for any period of time suffers for it and when I was working the streets there was a link between hard drug use and marijuana as well (not all users go to hard drugs but research and my experience corroborates that they are more prone to do so). Thanks for your commentary. As a sheriff-coroner I see the links with the accidental deaths, suicides, and some homicides as well. COL L
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Tomorrow's Marijuana is today's Same-Gender Marriage. Once the liberal politicians can get recreational marijuana legalized federally we'll see an influx of regulation changes and lawsuits for reinstatement due to illegal discharges. Have we heard this story before.<br>DADT in 1996 and 17 years later we have legalized gay marriages. Another 5-8 years before recreational marijuana use is federally legal, 2-3 years of Pentagon analysis, and by 2025 you will have marijuana cigarettes on sale at the PX/BX.<br>But, to provide my opinion, No! Marijuana and its effects have no place in the performance of military duties or the readiness of its Soldiers. Alcohol doesn't either but the kidneys can filter alcohol out of the system quicker and more efficiently than the current illegal drugs which can be detected in your system for a minimum of 72 hrs.<br>
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SSG V. Michelle Woods
LMAO! SFC Carothers I am NOTHING like these hippies Im related to!
Lol I'm just saying MOST of the arguments I've heard against the use of weed are based on invalid information.
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SGT (Join to see)
SSG V. Michelle Woods - pharmaceutical companies own the US... The military, in trying to be drug free, would rather feed us pills that turn us into zombies rather than utilize a natural resource that's not nearly as bad as all the crap we get fed from the pharmaceutical industry. The meds I have been prescribed turn me into a robot, or machine, in a zombie like state... I try to avoid taking them only until it's so bad iI have to take them. There's nothing good about rx meds. The thing i dont understand is the argument about it impairing you. I think drunk people are way more of a problem than people who smoked a little weed.
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COL Jon Lopey
MAJ: You are right about marijuana potentially impacting one's performance. It is true that you can test positive for marijuana weeks after using it because it is stored in the fatty tissues in the body; however, with my 43-years of law enforcement experience and my 35+ years of military experience, I can verify the fact that the vast majority of people who use marijuana, especially regular users who started as young teenagers, suffer many harmful impacts. There are people who can use it when they are older and avoid many deleterious effects but I firmly believe it has no place in the military. Anyone testing positive for it should get treatment or get out of the military. There are currently 8 million citizens with Cannabis Use Disorder and the numbers are growing because of the high THC levels, which range from 10 to 95+% depending if you are talking about smoked or concentrated varieties. I live in CA and the legalization has created huge problems and I see the accidental deaths, homicides, and suicides with a marijuana link too often to endorse the drug in any form. It is also still a Schedule 1 "Dangerous Drug" pursuant to the federal Controlled Substances Act. Thank you! COL L
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Absolutely not....there's plenty of legal recreational activities that are banned for use by military personnel, as they should be.
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<div><div>IF YOU ARE GOING TO DOWN VOTE THIS STATEMENT I PRESENTED PLEASE BE PROFESSIONAL ENOUGH TO LEAVE YOUR OPINION AS TO WHY YOU DISAGREE. </div><div><br></div><div>NO ONE LEARNS ANYTHING BY YOU CLICKING A BUTTON. IT IS SO VAGUE AND OFFERS NO INSIGHT INTO YOUR REASONING FOR NOT SUPPORTING THE STATEMENT.</div></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Just had a round table about this very thing. <br></div><div>NO it has no place in the military.</div><div><br></div><div>It dulls your senses, rapidly dehydrates you, it weakens your immune system, and it has been known to react to certain drugs up to two weeks after use (mainly anesthesia and pain medication). All things as a soldier, with the possibility of working in a combat environment(or garrison for that matter), you should want to avoid.</div><div><br></div><div>Allow it off duty? Since you can smoke marijuana on a Saturday and it is still in your system when you test* on Monday how will you tell if a soldier is using it in the line of duty?</div><div><br></div><div>*(pee test can be positive 2-3 weeks after last use, blood test can be positive up to 24-48 hrs after last use also, saliva testing is highly inaccurate and most times will not detect THC at all, testing a SMs feces can give a positive up to 30 days after last use, Hair is considered inaccurate as it tends to show longer in dark haired than light haired individuals)<br></div><div><br></div><div><div>Many say that a field sobriety test will tell if the soldier is unfit for duty. If the SM passes then who cares if he is high as long as he can still do his job. If the soldier fails then prosecute him. Here is the deal with that. You still can not prove that he failed the FST because he was high. He can claim that the reason he failed was from eating bad sushi, ear ache or some other BS story. The fact remains that if you test him using any of the methods there is still reasonable doubt that the THC in his system is from up to 3 weeks ago. You may believe he is currently intoxicated, but legally you can not prove it even after he failed a coordination test. The most you could do is send him home for the day and test him again tomorrow.(there would be SM failing on purpose just to get the day off!)</div><div><br></div><div>Going back to if he passes who cares if he is high as long as he can perform his job. Lets say SGT Janesmoker comes in and you think he is high, he passes his FST because he just smoked 5 min earlier on his drive into work and it hasn't hit him fully yet, you clear him for duty and he goes out to his job as a forklift operator. He is now feeling the full effects of the substance. He momentarily loses his train of thought and doesn't see his ground guide and puts the forks right through the track of a brand new M1A1 causing thousands of dollars worth of damage. Again the point is there is no surefire way to test the "time now" effects that MJ has on a SM. </div></div><div><br></div><div>Many say its no worse than Alcohol and i agree, but alcohol can be tested by the amount in your system and directly linked to your inability to function at that very moment. MJ can not!<br></div><div><br></div><div>I also offer this side note:</div><div><br></div><div>Robbery(weed) is not as harsh a crime as Murder(alcohol), should we make it legal just based on that??<br></div><div><br></div><div>The lesser of two evils is still evil. </div><div>Or in this case the lesser of two combat limiters is still a combat limiter.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div>
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SSG V. Michelle Woods
Roger, but your other explanation was even better. It really opened my eyes to see a valid point for opposing weed for troops.
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SGT (Join to see)
SSG Williams,
First, thank you for clarifying. I meant no disrespect for the cap locks just making it stand out to grab attention not yelling as is the common explanation for cap locks.
I have no hate for weed, just a legitimate concern that we cant tell who is and who isnt high on duty.
In relation to other stimulants that affect soldiers, the answer is not to make another legal (the robbery,murder analogy) the answer would be to make all illegal if they pose a severe motor skill prohibiting intoxication problem and no way to track it. While i am not here to debate ALL the things that need to be legal versus illegal. I do believe that weed should not be made legal based on the fact that there is no way to accurately test who is and who isn't high on duty. Please see my long explanation above in response to SSG Woods.
While caffeine and tobacco both have negative long term health effects they do not have the high euphoric effects of weed. While all are considered stimulants/intoxicants the main difference is their euphoric effects. Again the lesser of two evils is neither a good argument to make weed legal or keep it illegal(that has never been my stance). Not being able to determine the time now intoxication level of a SM on duty is.
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SGT (Join to see)
Fact is, whoever is taking anything, whether it's drugs (pharmaceutical or other) or alcohol that's puts soldiers or equipment in danger, needs to get hemmed up for it. I do believe if it ever were federally legal, for sm's to use MJ whether recreational or rehabilitation purposes. But like most inhibitors, there's a window. If you decide to go out that window, the consequences are all your own. For example, you're not going to take NyQuil at the start of the duty day. Bans I would naturally take would be in country or in a QRF unit. MJ might stay in your system for a prolonged period, but the actual effects last hours (from anything I've seen). And while yes you do have the few that get paranoid, it's still nowhere near the amount that get violent from drinking over what they should. And if you do so happen to be in a position to have too much to handle, you let your first line leader know. Worse to get caught doing above and beyond what you can actually do, that goes to both impaired or sober
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Marijuana has no place in 99.9% of the military. Only in extreme medical situations like Wounded Warriors, which should be case-by-case evaluations, would I support controlled use of medicinal marijuana for the service member. But as far as recreational use, no how no way -- it has no place in our military.
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I suspect eventually it will be dispensed by the Military but not soon enough. I see no problem with it. Yes it is a drug, yes it can be abused but I don't see the abuse problems that I see with other drugs to include Alcohol.
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Compared to alcohol, marijuana is essentially benign. I watched 2 people die over the last 2 years from drinking. I've seen nobody die from marijuana.
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If there is one thing I have learned during my career in the Military; it is that the Armed Forces will follow society. It never leads society with inovation but it ALWAYS reluctantly follows it. I believe the door has been opened and more and more states will follow until the Federal Government legalizes it. Then it will be legal in the Military but its use shunned much like alcohol use. I am sure it will also be under General Order Number One.
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A simple, NO. I acknowledge the pros and cons of the argument. I'd just rather keep it out of the military, with the exception of medicinal use, under the direction of the medical folks.
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