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Does our Oath ever expire? Our we still held to it after the military? What if an amendment were added to removed from the Constitution? Would you be required to uphold your original oath? I don't forsee this happening any time soon. It's just 3 am and I can't sleep.....
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 50
Cpl Dave D I can relate to your dilemma. I have many blog postings written at "Oh-dark-thirty". The frequency is increasing as we drop deeper into the abyss of progressive interpretations of our Constitution and their shenanigans. So, let's answer your question and get you back to bed so that you can catch up on your beauty sleep.
Your Oath of Enlistment or Commissioning is not enforceable in and of itself. (Can you imagine what would happen if politicians could be held accountable to their oaths which have similiar declarations?) It is merely a declaration that you voluntarily submit yourself to the provisions of the UCMJ so long as you serve. Technically, you remain obligated to that service until discharged.
Morally and ethically, many veterans consider themselves bound by their promise to support and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic, for life. However, that is a personal choice, an honorable choice, the choice of a citizen who recognizes that America is not defined by a land mass, but rather by principles codified in the Constitution. We may pledge allegiance to symbols of the Republic, but in actuality, without the Constitution and dedicated observance of it, there is no nation. It seems that service members and veterans understand this better than most. Sadly, the sum total of those who serve or have served is a scant minority of the nation and the proportion of those who have not learned these same lessons are growing exponentially with every passing generation.
Your Oath of Enlistment or Commissioning is not enforceable in and of itself. (Can you imagine what would happen if politicians could be held accountable to their oaths which have similiar declarations?) It is merely a declaration that you voluntarily submit yourself to the provisions of the UCMJ so long as you serve. Technically, you remain obligated to that service until discharged.
Morally and ethically, many veterans consider themselves bound by their promise to support and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic, for life. However, that is a personal choice, an honorable choice, the choice of a citizen who recognizes that America is not defined by a land mass, but rather by principles codified in the Constitution. We may pledge allegiance to symbols of the Republic, but in actuality, without the Constitution and dedicated observance of it, there is no nation. It seems that service members and veterans understand this better than most. Sadly, the sum total of those who serve or have served is a scant minority of the nation and the proportion of those who have not learned these same lessons are growing exponentially with every passing generation.
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SGT (Join to see)
PO3 David Burkett UCMJ only applies if I'm on duty. The part about the oath and my duties in regards to the Constitution never expire.
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HN Connie DÂûgherty
SGT (Join to see)
Agreed. Granted, once we take our discharge, we no longer have officers appointed over us, and thus are no longer bound to THAT segment, but, there is no other language within our oath that gives a date upon which we are released from our obligation to support and defend the Constitution from ALL enemies foreign and domestic.
Agreed. Granted, once we take our discharge, we no longer have officers appointed over us, and thus are no longer bound to THAT segment, but, there is no other language within our oath that gives a date upon which we are released from our obligation to support and defend the Constitution from ALL enemies foreign and domestic.
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CPT Jack Durish
SGT (Join to see) - I would love to sit down and have a beer with you and just listen to you talk. I suspect that it would be a wonderful adventure akin to Alice's Looking Glass World. Your comment in this class reflects my own and yet it is a kind of backwards reflection. Stay safe. These are dangerous times...
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TSgt William Kaelber
False, Capt.... You can still be Court's Martialed under UCMJ AFTER you have retired
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HN Connie DÂûgherty
Sgt John Dolan Legally, you are correct.
Morally, ethically, and for those of us who believe in it, biblically we are bound to our oath so long as we live because there was no date given upon which it ends.
Officially, we no longer have officers appointed over us, and therefore we no longer fall under this requirement nor are subject to the regulations/jurisdiction of the UCMJ. But we are, again, morally and ethically bound to our oath regarding the protection and support of the Constitution.
Morally, ethically, and for those of us who believe in it, biblically we are bound to our oath so long as we live because there was no date given upon which it ends.
Officially, we no longer have officers appointed over us, and therefore we no longer fall under this requirement nor are subject to the regulations/jurisdiction of the UCMJ. But we are, again, morally and ethically bound to our oath regarding the protection and support of the Constitution.
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Sgt John Dolan
HN Connie DÂûgherty - legalities supersede morality. Officially, legally, morally, or ethically, we are under no obligation to honor an expired oath.
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Suspended Profile
A1C S.T. Hege - Do you remember having to take the oath again at every re-enlistment?
Cpl Dave D
Technically it expires once our enlistments/commissions are up. BUT, as Capt Seid Waddell says, our Oath never expires. It is our duty to defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and DOMESTIC.
Technically it expires once our enlistments/commissions are up. BUT, as Capt Seid Waddell says, our Oath never expires. It is our duty to defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and DOMESTIC.
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SSgt Ted Welch
Sgt John Dolan - Careful with absolutes, I re-enlisted without needing to retake the oath. It was just a paperwork event. I figure you are good once you have taken the oath, no need to reaffirm it and it does not expire in ethical terms.
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Sgt John Dolan
The contract we sign binds us to our oath not ethics, and that contract we sign and the oath we took both expire when the contract does. You can figure and pretend but legally it ends, that doesn’t mean you, personally, can’t still adhere to it if you so choose but you aren’t legally bound to.
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Suspended Profile
The oath ends. What you are describing is your commitment to your intentions when you took the oath. The oath ends but in many cases the commitment doesn't.
TSgt William Kaelber
False..... You can still be Court's Martialed under the UCMJ -- AFTER you retire
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Both of enlistment never expires. We may no longer be serving in uniform but is veterans I personally believe we are continually serving our nation in one form or another.
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Sgt John Dolan
Personal belief does not change the fact that our oath of enlistment expires once or contract is finished. If it didn't expire we wouldn't have to take it again when we reenlist.
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To me a oath never expires. But it is very sad that our elected officials choose to ignore the very constitution that we swore our oath too.
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Great question. My answer is no it does not But as we take an oath to defend, i also believe civilians have a duty to know the rights we defend and actively educate their kids.
Ideally, I believe the constitution and citizenship should be part of public school curricula to include small arms training and qualifying to help remove the mystique and fascination and preserve our 2nd amendment and other rights.
I respect the individuals freedom to own or not own a firearm, but their kids are born with that as a birthright. Not teaching them is a very dangerous oversight IMO.
Ideally, I believe the constitution and citizenship should be part of public school curricula to include small arms training and qualifying to help remove the mystique and fascination and preserve our 2nd amendment and other rights.
I respect the individuals freedom to own or not own a firearm, but their kids are born with that as a birthright. Not teaching them is a very dangerous oversight IMO.
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I guess "technically" it does expire after you have full filled your service obligations, but I've never stopped honoring it.
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Sgt John Dolan
Finally a sensible person. Of course it expires once our contract is finished otherwise we wouldn’t need to swear to it again upon reenlistment.
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TSgt William Kaelber
False..... You can still be Court's Martialed under the UCMJ -- AFTER you retire
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An oath taken between you and your God(or gods), can only end with breaking it. There is no expiration of an oath.
Amendment to remove the constitution? Amendment itself is the constitution, I can't see how that work out. To destroy the constitution, one must violate the constitution.
Amendment to remove the constitution? Amendment itself is the constitution, I can't see how that work out. To destroy the constitution, one must violate the constitution.
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Seems most are weighing in with their heart, which is a good thing. Any oath is no longer legally binding when the contract under which it is given is no longer in force. Most keep it because it becomes a part of what/who they are. I bring this aspect up because there's an occasional instance of a Vet demanding another Vet maintain their view and value on it. I think oaths are more important than most view but then again I made another oath 39 years ago and still have no intention of breaking it or her heart, ever.
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TSgt William Kaelber
False..... You can still be Court's Martialed under the UCMJ -- AFTER you retire
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Cpl Dave D
Note that the Naturalization Oath of Allegiance also includes some similar components; specifically that clause "to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic."
But the citizenship oath also adds "and laws of the United States."
"I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God."
https://www.uscis.gov/us-citizenship/naturalization-test/naturalization-oath-allegiance-united-states-america
Sometimes I wonder: would it not also be a good practice for American natural born, specifically native-born, citizens to recite a similar oath?
Regarding your question regarding does the oath still apply should the Constitution be changed through Amendment: Yes, it does.
Note that the Naturalization Oath of Allegiance also includes some similar components; specifically that clause "to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic."
But the citizenship oath also adds "and laws of the United States."
"I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God."
https://www.uscis.gov/us-citizenship/naturalization-test/naturalization-oath-allegiance-united-states-america
Sometimes I wonder: would it not also be a good practice for American natural born, specifically native-born, citizens to recite a similar oath?
Regarding your question regarding does the oath still apply should the Constitution be changed through Amendment: Yes, it does.
Naturalization Oath of Allegiance to the United States of America
Oath"I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty, of whom or which I have her
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