Does White Privilege exist? If so, do you think White Supremacy exists also?

My friend I think you misread. I said supremacy does not exist amongst mankind. Of course there are people who believe they are supreme. I took the liberty of using the phrase and tearing it down. Anyway, we agree on every front.

SGT (Join to see) - You really need to go back and reexamine history. There were blacks who chose to come here...AND THEY WERE GIVEN FARMS AND WHITE SLAVES.

If you are really interested in the history of "your people" I have a couple of book suggestions for you. Forever Free: The Story of Emancipation and Reconstruction, by Eric Foner. Just so we are clear, the man is known as anything but a Republican, so don't think I am suggesting a book written by someone like Robert Byrd or Strom Thurmond both known members of the KKK (oh wait, they were both Democrats). The book is one of the better examinations of "racial policy" leading up to and after the Civil War. Another book you perhaps should read is The Metaphysical Club by Louis Menard, specifically the portion of the book pertaining to Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes. I am sure that you probably assume that because I am white I am speaking out of my ass on these topics; however, it is something that I have actually studied fairly extensively (Civil Rights Law, Civil Rights History, Crime Statistics, American History, and World History). The arguments that I am making that run counter to yours are not based at all on emotion, but rather based upon verifiable facts.

I know that you are looking at the issue based upon emotion, and I am not saying that your emotions are completely invalidated just because they are emotions; however, your emotions are definitely biasing your view on the issues. While in a different string of replies you stated that you A) had never heard of black supremacist, B) after having been explained and demonstrated examples of black supremacist you rationalized that the majority of black people do not hold those views (thereby absolving "your" race of any impropriety) C) claimed that white supremacist go well beyond the KKK, D) when I pointed out to you that if the majority of whites abhor the mindset of actual white supremacist, but are collectively lumped in with them and being held responsible for the thoughts they abhor by you...then you are creating a double standard E) to which you replied with silence. Furthermore I know that you are viewing this issue through emotions and solely based upon your race when you make statements such as "Because WE DIDN'T VOLUNETEER to come over and work on YOUR farms" (Emphasis mine). Please, pray tell, at what point were you personally dragged out of Africa? At what point did any body hold you personally as a slave? Because the reality is NO ONE ALIVE TODAY IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE SINS OF THE PAST.

Slavery was bad; however, I have zero remorse for it...BECAUSE I NEVER TOOK PART IN IT. I will only be held responsible for my own actions, and I will do you that same favor. Why is it that black people always blame white people for slavery (generally speaking, because if you can make blanket statements than so can I)? White people never went and rounded up Africans just for S & G. Why do black people talk about how they should still be in Africa? Do you not realize that it was black Africans who sold your ancestors into slavery? I really have no idea where the misconception came from that Europeans just went into Africa and started plucking people from their homes, but that is not how it happened. Due to this misconception I guess it is not too much of a logical leap to assume whites did the same thing in Asia (because apparently that is how we procured all the manpower to build the railways according to you). Fuck me, I mean whites would kill 100 Million natives (according to at least one guy on here) who could have been enslaved for free, but pay to have bounty hunters and mercenaries round people up and then ship them half way across the world? From an economic standpoint alone that makes no sense. Some of the white slaves that were here were kidnapped and shipped, because they were departing from the same country as whoever was doing the kidnapping and the environment was non-hostile.

If you really want to understand why racism persist, look at your own words. "You" vs. "We" is an attempt to collectively categorize everyone of a race together and discount individual actions. Any time the discussion of police shootings comes about and someone who is not black tries to point out that blacks are shot by the cops less often than whites (both when viewed as total numbers within the aggregates or when viewed in light of total deaths per interaction with law enforcement) is labeled a racist and told they are attempting to belittle black people's experiences. No, they aren't, if that is your view (or anyone else's for that matter), get over yourself. Facts are not racist, is it racist to point out that the majority of the NFL and NBA are black, and the majority of the NHL is white?

The reason people bring the statistics of the reality of police shootings is not to say that it isn't a tragedy if a black person is unjustly killed by a police officer, but rather to point out that it isn't as wide spread as the media is attempting to portray. Baltimore and Ferguson were both decimated by riots because "the cops are racist and just trying to kill black people", when the reality was Michael Brown was shot trying to take a gun away from a cop and Freddy Gray was beating his own head against the inside of the van...that was being driven by a black officer. The rhetoric from the media and BLM has become so inflammatory that people are now hunting cops like the are animals.

The reality is anytime someone is unjustifiably killed it is a tragedy. I don't give a shit if they are white, black, brown, or green. Nor do I care if they are male, female, gay, straight, or some tumblr made up gender/sexuality. They are people and any life lost needlessly is unconscionable. That is what people mean when they say "All lives matter", but as soon as they say that they are told that they are racist. By calling them a racist you are helping to create a racist, because you are to that person stating that race matters above all else and they are a different race. Well if race matters, which one do you expect them to side with? IDENTITY POLITICS ARE KILLING THIS COUNTRY

SPC Shaun Eaves - Sir,

Blacks were slaves point blank period so that's that. I've read forever free and it was a good book. The 15 year gap between Emancipaction Proc and the removal of the troops... Boom got it... Take a look at Marching Masters by Colin Edward Woodward or Slavery and Disenfranchisement to African Americans by Gene Brown. I am more than interested in my "people history" as you say so let's not get rude and slick on that note.

With the whole republic/ democratic thing you got going on with the second part of your comment I don't know whether to take it as a joke or an insult. Yes I know, the KKK can be democrats as well, so yea...

Trust me the emotion you see is coming from what I've experienced, what people around me have experienced and overall what folks have been through. Facts... I don't see how black supremacy ever existed bc we surely did not attempt to gain superiority over another race due to the color of their skin, so to move past slavery I will say "segregation laws, Jim Crow laws, lynching, false trials, crowded schools with no materials for blacks, no blacks allowed signs." The list continues so yes I think it goes beyond the KKK so if one would deny this as white supremacy at its finest then I would say one is naive or straight up oblivious.

You nor I can speak for majority especially you with the having an abhor mindset towards the subject if it seems to be majority going on social media or national tv making racist and ignorant comments. For example, Trumps campaign chair in Ohio (I'm pretty sure you saw the interview). I know I wasn't drugged out of Africa to come and be a slave or die in America so I would hope my words are not being taken literally. I agree no one alive today is responsible for the sins of the past, but don't miss the point I'm making when I say racism, white privilege and supremacy existed and to an extent still exist today, but no one will admit that.

Remorse is a bit overboard because no ones on here asking for an apology my friend. It's simply asking and seeing if one would admit that something exist even though we know you're not a part of it. I have no remorse either, but it saddens me.

BLM is falling apart due to those who looks for an excuse to riot and act a fool. You have those who associate themselves with something that actually has a meaning to it and ruin it for the group. BLM doesn't mean that all lives don't matter, but it's simply addressing the issue that a lot of black people want to address and it's funny because the only people I hear and see white people address is Brown because he "tried to take the cops weapon." But For example, you saw a man get shot and killed when his car broke down. They tried to say that he had pcp which wasn't true and that he was reaching for a gun which the officer already deem his car clear way before he walked back to his car. Then you have a white man go into a predominantly black church and murder 9 black people and he doesn't get put down, but gets BK because he's hungry?!!! Frustration sets in on that because people throw in that he may have had a record or he should've stopped walking which to me don't matter bc it still don't justify one taking another persons life.

I agree on the fact the politics and the media is killing this country, but also in my opinion I feel like healing will come when folks acknowledge that racism and supremacy exist and how can we as a whole fix it on both sides of the fence.

SGT (Join to see) - My point about Republicans vs. Democrats is that Republicans are pointed out as "racists" and Democrats get a pass. Sorry I didn't fully explain that. It often happens that people forget to explicitly point out exactly what they see when they make statements or how they got there. It does not mean that they have made a logical leap, just that they made a leap in their explanation. The points about the two party system and identity politics destroying the Republic I completely stand behind, and will be glad to further explain if you would like. To me it is self-evident, and I do not what to appear to be talking down to anyone by explaining it if they already understand it. However I have spent a lot of time examining that particular issue, so I do not know where anyone else stands on it.

I found Forever Free to be an excellent book, because it did not "hold back", and Foner relayed history how it occurred. For example, he pointed out that slavery was not "just" about race and that free blacks in the south owned slaves as well.

I have never stated that blacks were not slaves, but to overlook the fact that white slaves existed; and were often times treated worse than the black slaves by the same owner because they were less valuable, is to actually make slavery less sinister than it actually was. When I was in school we were taught about slavery, but never that it affected white people too. I do not mention white slavery in order to get into a pissing contest over whose race has had it worse. I do this merely to show that slavery was bad, it has been taught completely wrong, and that everybody at some point had it badly.

Guess what, I do not believe that lynching, Jim Crow, segregation, poor schools, etc. were a good thing. On the contrary, I believe that they are a horrible thing. I also know that the last "lynching" that I know of was when James Byrd was dragged to death in Jasper Texas simply because he was black. This happened about 90 miles from where I lived at the time. The reaction from everyone that I knew (black, white, etc.) were that the two guys that did it should be executed (and they were) because it was murder. The reason that lynching, etc., happened before was because black people were seen as less than human (both by the people committing the atrocities and in the eyes of the law), but that has changed. At no point have I ever contended that "white privilege" or white supremacy have never existed, only that these are not societal constructions valid or applicable to today's society.

You say that black supremacy can not exist because of whatever reasons. However the current state of the law is that if I (a white man) try to rob you and it goes south and I shoot you...I will more than likely be brought up on hate crime charges (to get "extra punishment") even if your race were not a factor. If the situation is reversed, no hate crime charges for you. This makes my life "less-equal" in the eyes of the law and your "more-equal" in the eyes of the law. In reality most times someone murders someone else it is due to hate (you typically don't murder those you like, unless there is a mental illness involved). If I own a business that has over 50 employees I have to ensure that I hire enough people, based upon race, to not get EEOC over site. These are laws that have been put in place to ensure that there is no "white privilege".

I am not discounting any of your personal experiences. I have relayed mine, where I was beaten for six months (by a group that ranged between 5-10 individuals) solely because I was white. Racism happens, to all races. I still contend that it is carried out by individuals and not society.

You keep mentioning Dylan Roof. He surrendered to the cops. Should the cops have shot him after he surrendered? Would that have made you happy that the cops murdered him? How about the branched Davidians or Ruby Ridge, they were all murdered and white...does that make you happy (even though they were all minding their own business when the ATF showed up)? By the way, you should probably go check the news about the guy in NC. Not only was he shot by a black officer, but he also had a gun...kind of moots your point on that one. Ferguson, Baltimore, NC, etc. were instances where the police officers involved were painted as murdering racist by the media (and spawned the BLM movement) but when the facts came out...that wasn't the case.

Perhaps the tone of my previous reply came off as a bit harsh. You are not asking for remorse, you are not pointing fingers at me personally, etc. However, to say that it isn't happening is to stick your head in the sand. It is, and on a large scale. They are now teaching white guilt at colleges in social justice classes. Articles in the NYT are calling for reparations. Plus many other examples that would extend this reply past the point of sanity.

The reality is, that when I talk to you I am talking to someone named Joshua Covington a man, a soldier, a fellow American. That is how I would want you to view me. Notice what I left out. I don't see myself as talking to a black man, nor you a white man. I don't deal with people of races, I deal with people. That is how we move past racism. If we view things through the lens of race we will always find racist actions towards ourselves based upon our skin color. If we look at things objectively we are less likely to do so.

That was an extremely powerful statement. Glad you overcame.

PO3 Donald Murphy - Thank you. Everyone goes through some form of hardship or discrimination in their lives, so it's a constant battle I face when I have people I call friends tell me I never struggled in life.

College Privalege? Wow ok let's see....

First your analogy makes no sense what so ever in my opinion and if you knew what white Privalege is then you wouldn't have made that statement.

Race has to deal with race. That's not a choice and neither you nor I had a choice on what race we wanted to be.

Anyone can go to college because it's a choice and yes it sucks you have to further your education to get certain jobs. Most companies believe education than experience because people are paying out big bucks to be considered an expert by going to college.

I gaurantee if you were to go back to school to finish companies will take you in a heart beat due to your experience in the field you're working in, military experience and education. You'll have the high hat over any college graduate. And that's that nothing in between.

Irish dad (duh). Mexican mom. So yes. I have seen "priviledge" come in and I've also seen it work the other way where I got consideration BECAUSE of mom. So it all depends on where you are and what side of the fence you're on. There were kids at school who "made me aware" (in case I didn't already know...) that my mom was brown and dad was white. Then there was the other prejudice of being a military brat that none of the civilian kids wanted to hang out with/make friends with, as you'd be moving in a year or two. So prejudice, animosity, hatred and plain ignorance have been parts of my life growing up. Did it teach hate? No. Tolerance.

Now having said that - I have noticed that in my personal experience there are folk who bemoan their situation and those who rise to the top of it. There is always going to be something about you that people don't like/cotton to. Your religious beliefs can get you different treatment (good or bad) depending on the crowd you're in. Even in a crowd of white people, there are those against what I do and what I stand for. Most of the "haters" for me having a foreign wife are white. So whats the answer?

In typically American fashion we want the clouds to part, huge hand to come down from the sky and smite those committing the offense. It won't happen. So I tend to just teach my kids to be as caring and compassionate as they can and not judge books by their cover. This was an easy lesson as dad is American and mom ("mum") is a foreigner. So the kids have also been asked "how come your mom talks funny," etc. This is really all that can be done. Racism isn't hereditary. Its taught. Teach your kids and family the right way and thats all that can be done. You can harp that others learn it and live it but it can't sadly be enforced. There's no magic bullet.

TSgt Frank Shirley - Still discrimination.

Thank you for your comment. I don't have a response other than I agree and I appreciate you commenting and not getting upset with my question

SGT (Join to see) - I hate short answers, so I decided to add a story about perception that might be appropriate to the subject. This occurred Georgia in the mid 1980's. My office was in the same hall as the Social Actions (EEOT) office and at different times, I made friends with two different black female TSgts, both were Social Actions Officers. One of them was from Alabama and the other from Illinois. The one from Alabama moved to the very small town of Ray City, Georgia. At some point she told me how much she loved the town and how friendly everyone was. She said that when she drove through town everyone waved at her, when she walked around town everyone stopped to talk to her or at least smiled and said hello to her. Approximately a year latter, the second TSgt told me how uncomfortable she was with going to Ray City. Everyone there always stared at her (they also waved) and people she didn't know wanted to talk to her in the streets. She wasn't sure if they were racists, she just didn't know how to take them, and it made her very uncomfortable. Because of that, she wouldn't go to Ray City alone, even to visit her friend who lived there.

My point is that we all see the world through a set of experiences that range from slightly different to vastly different then everyone else in the world. One can choose to believe that their problems are the result of a vast conspiracy, but it doesn't necessarily mean its true (although it might be). My wife absolutely believes that blonds are treated differently than women with different hair color. I don't see it, but she thinks its been the bane of her life.

MSgt James Mullis - In a crazy, funny kind of way, my wife pulled that at the school where she works. Losing weight, changing hair style, no one notices. Come in the next day with blonde hair, INSTANT COMPLIMENTS.

Thank you for your response. There are a lot of those who are upset that I made this post, but honestly I just want to have a honest and intelligent conversation w/o anyone getting offended. I appreciate you acknowledging. I agree w/ the Army is what you make out of it

I think it's a great post and your intent was obviously to start a discussion. The challenge is not white privilege in my opinion as much as why haven't we as a nation had a structured plan in the last fifty years to extend opportunity so that those who are willing to work hard can get ahead. Those that aren't willing to do that, well they have the reward of their efforts. As a nation we've always thrown money at the problem instead of solving the problem... Just an old guys opinion...

I don't know that I necessarily agree with the first half of your statement, but the second half is dead on. I believe that one must realize that for hundreds of years the majority of citizens in this nation were (and for now any way) white and that the social interactions, morals and societal norms associated with European nations as a result were/are the dominant culture. When a minority enters into a society dominated by a given ethos, they will have to adopt those mores to succeed. When that minority refuses to integrate or tries to impose their own culture they will experience strife. This is not to say that the dominant culture is trying to keep the minorities from being equal, the dominant culture is simply trying to keep that culture they know and like. Where minorities have joined the American Mixing Pot and adopted the prevailing culture they have succeeded - often quite well - Asian populations seem to excel in many ways. When the minority culture doesn't try to integrate and instead insists that the majority must change their own ways they will encounter resentment and resistance.
I am not going to get into some sort of social/cultural equivalency thing here to say one culture is better than another - there is no way to objectively make that judgement either way.
Having said all of that - your last paragraph hits the nail square on the head and just about sums up the entire argument perfectly! Thanks for a sensible and well articulated post.

SCPO Lonny Randolph - The trouble is we (minorities) weren't given the chance to succeed until the civil rights movement and even then, still kept from the American dream by our own Administration to an extent. As you stated, the dominant culture wanted to keep things the way they like. It's just unfortunate we were forced to adopt a culture since our own culture was stripped from us which is why I refer to myself as Black instead of African American. I wasn't born there and can't really trace my ancestral roots back to there . Anyway, I'm getting out of the weeds now. LOL

PO1 Rodney Bracey - Granted... the Civil Rights Movement went a long, long way towards at least addressing the issues of inequality, but the movement didn't and can't - nor can any other movement for that matter make everyone equal. Equality is something one earns through one's own hard work as you discussed in your first post. I'm not even going to get into the issue of your culture being stripped from you or your being forced to adopt a culture, suffice it to say you were not born to that culture - your ancestors were and the evil of that deed has been thrashed enough. You were born to this culture, you may not like it or approve of it, though you and your parents and I presume your siblings seem to have successfully adopted it.
I think the real thrust of my previous post which I probably didn't articulate as well as I would have liked is that as a minority it is unrealistic and rather silly to expect the prevailing society to adjust itself to the minority rather than the other way around. Do you honestly believe that the citizens of this nation would have willingly adopted the culture of the African tribes? It would have been equally unrealistic of the Irish, Germans, Swedish, Chinese and other ethnic and racial minorities who came to these shores in the past to have expected the nation to adapt to them rather than the other way around. Perhaps one could say well they weren't slaves and that is why they were able to adapt, but that isn't entirely true either, the Chinese in particular were brought in under conditions similar to slavery, as were many Irish and German immigrants. The real difference in my personal opinion is the attitude - which appears to have really gotten worse in the last 8 years - of victimhood, which for many is an excuse for failure rather than a goad to succeed. Instead of complaining about the past or trying to make others conform to your view of the world, don't you think it would be better to introduce the gifts your culture brought to these shores?

sorry for my text messaging messed up. Native American or native Canadians have their own trucking companies now because of discrimination. Can you imagine my life being the assistant driver making less money than the guy who's driving who doesn't have the actual license but because of white privilege she's stuck as the assistant driver. Total BS but it happens. Canada is not friendly toward me when my wife comes to California or North Carolina everyone think she's Hispanic and she's fine.