Posted on Apr 6, 2015
Does White Privilege really exist in our military? "Army says diversity training sent wrong signal... "
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What are your thoughts on this topic, this training, this manual?
I, personally, believe we have come a long way in the America and in our Army, but I also know (A) we are not there yet, and (B) I know that I see the world through my eyes and life experiences.
1. As you know (or may not know) the concept of "white privilege" appeared in the Defense Equal Opportunity Management Institute (DEOMI) training manual in 2013. DOD officials quickly said it was a mistake, and it that this was not caught in the fielding of the policy manual... That makes sense, as many don't actually read things they approve. That led me/us to believe there was a change in the works.
2. Now, it appears this concept, which was supposed to be removed the DOD training manual/POI, was not, and DEOMI is still pushing this message. Now, it appears we have an EO Officer or NCO teaching this to Soldiers...
Interesting to say the least.
These are some related articles.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/04/03/army-diversity-training/25250733/
http://toprightnews.com/army-soldiers-forced-to-sit-through-white-privilege-presentation-and-the-backlash-is-just-beginning/
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/10/31/pentagon-training-manual-white-males-have-unfair-advantages/
I, personally, believe we have come a long way in the America and in our Army, but I also know (A) we are not there yet, and (B) I know that I see the world through my eyes and life experiences.
1. As you know (or may not know) the concept of "white privilege" appeared in the Defense Equal Opportunity Management Institute (DEOMI) training manual in 2013. DOD officials quickly said it was a mistake, and it that this was not caught in the fielding of the policy manual... That makes sense, as many don't actually read things they approve. That led me/us to believe there was a change in the works.
2. Now, it appears this concept, which was supposed to be removed the DOD training manual/POI, was not, and DEOMI is still pushing this message. Now, it appears we have an EO Officer or NCO teaching this to Soldiers...
Interesting to say the least.
These are some related articles.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/04/03/army-diversity-training/25250733/
http://toprightnews.com/army-soldiers-forced-to-sit-through-white-privilege-presentation-and-the-backlash-is-just-beginning/
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/10/31/pentagon-training-manual-white-males-have-unfair-advantages/
Equal Opportunity Advisor
Racism
Diversity
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 64
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Over the course of my 26-year career, I have witnessed many different "covert" racist incidents within the ranks of the NCO Corps of my beloved Army, from all different races and within the DA itself. I have been witness to, but never a member of, the "Good Ol' Boy" network which for lack of a better name, was mostly a Caucasian thing; I have been witness to the African-American "Free Mason" club; as well as different Hispanic and Pacific Islander networks. At differing times through out my career I have seen all races/ethnic backgrounds "take care of their own" at the expense of others who may have been more deserving of a promotion, position or award. One of the biggest problems inherent within the Army system itself, like within society as a whole IMO, is the continuation of the Affirmative Action or "quota" system within the Army promotion program as a whole. Time and again I saw fully qualified individuals not get selected by or passed over due to their race/ethnic origin in favor of someone who was less qualified or of equal qualification and to me that is just wrong, promotion should have and always should be based on your performance and potential, not due to a percentage of skin color/or ethnic background. White Privilege may have been predominate in the '50s, '60s, '70s and '80s, but that has pretty much been quashed and the pendulum swung more to the opposite end of the spectrum, rather than having finally settled in the center as it should.
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I can only say that, with 20 years of experience I haven't seen it as a significant issue. From my view point, every race and gender seems to have identical opportunities. Of course, that's only my own narrow viewpoint, but I like to think that military is generally more egalitarian than the population at large.
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I wouldn't know...I've yet to experience it. I've had performance privilege, never witnessed white privilege. I guess I've been lucky.
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COL Charles Williams
Thanks. CPT (Join to see), and I hope it is always that way in your career and lifetime.
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I'd like to know what white privilege really is. I know that I have had to work for everything in my life. When I have come up short, absent were my rewards. When I succeeded, I knew it. No one ever stood around with an extended hand to make sure all was good if I just didn't muster the effort. I have had the same opportunity to fail, become nothing and destroy my opportunities and my family as anyone else. I am where I am because I refuse to be a victim of my own perceived inability, not because I was born with privilege. I haven't accomplished nearly what I was born able to do, and it is because I haven't put forth the effort or sought the path to achieve it yet. I hate the phrase "white privilege." Many years ago, it may have had meaning. Today I consider it an excuse. It isn't racist or bigoted to feel that way, I know it because I know what it means to take responsibility. Everyone everywhere will experience prejudice, because prejudice is an inherent human trait that all posses. Of course there are racists out there, and they aren't limited to white people. The only one who is limited is he who limits himself, and that is the message we should be teaching in the military and at home with our children.
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COL Charles Williams
SFC (Join to see) Thanks for your comments. I agree with you. I never thought I got anything for being white; or, at least I don't think I did... I feel I have worked hard for everything. I have seen many example of folks complaining they did not get selected for reasons other than they were not not the best qualified. I can't ever say, I did not get selected because I am white...
I was also the victim of reverse discrimination... which happens often.... But, which the Army often refuses to acknowledge.... I was told by several attorneys... this is "the Army's dirty little secret."
Interesting topic, and I guess it is all about your perspective...
I was also the victim of reverse discrimination... which happens often.... But, which the Army often refuses to acknowledge.... I was told by several attorneys... this is "the Army's dirty little secret."
Interesting topic, and I guess it is all about your perspective...
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I personally am sick of all the cry babies out there that take offense to any push or shove they get going up the ladder of life and never thank the hands that pull them back up regardless it's color and It is human nature to feel your one time enemy has more advantage on you and racist thoughts abound from time to time; however when some one of your race abuses you you just think what an ass hole get up and proceed to better his attitude, well ass holes come in all colors, sexes, religions, orientations, ranks, and disliking them is not racist... it's normal. So if someone dislikes you, he may not be a racist maybe your an asshole and you don't see it. We have come a long way since MLK, we don't need to pacify anyone anymore just treat everyone equally. And do try to control the occasional racist in all of us excluding the liars.
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COL Charles Williams
Thanks MSgt Manuel Diaz .... Imagine... if you will, how I would perceived/attacked if I (as a white male) made those same comments... I appreciate your comments! I too am tired... If I have a bad day, I can't readily blame things on any one..
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MSgt Manuel Diaz
You can quote me... but as yourself everything is my fault when the shit hits the fan because I didn't stop look and listen and should have... look how far the government's unconstitutional power has stretched.
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I think white privilege is an excuse to sustain, IMHO, equal opportunity and diversity. Yes, years ago there may have been more of a prominent existence of white privilege, but today I don't think so. My wife and I have both been denied access to schooling and employment due to EO and diversity. "Sorry we need to accept people of this ethnic or racial background due to the law so even though you are better qualified, well, that's the way it is." "Sorry we're looking for females of this racial/ethnic background for this position even though you are well qualified." Just like the percentage game. "Well if 67% of the population is this race/ethnic background, then why isn't 67% of the police force of this same make up instead of 90% white?" It will never work out that way unless you lower the standards to make corrections and/or tell people, as we have been told, that there is a racial/ethnic quota on hiring for jobs, entrance to colleges, etc.
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Short answer is yes it exists but it is one evil among a myriad of others. I have seen people discriminate and cut each other’s throat in the military for countless reasons and non reasons. I had one Hispanic NCOIC that anytime he interacted with another shop or another unit he always looked to find another Hispanic and if they were not there that day business would have to get done tomorrow. In the interest of full disclosure I am equally as guilty in that I belong to an international / worldwide fraternity. If there is a fraternity member in the organization that I am reaching out to I will reach out to them first. Is that necessarily fair to the other professionals in that organization I would say no. I should expect them to treat me with the same level of professionalism as members of my fraternal organization which by the way has both male and female members in its ranks. My last example would be a close friend who was a captain at the time. Anytime contentious issues would come up in staff calls he or one of his brothers / sisters would tap their ring finger on the table. That exercise was called a “ring check” what it meant was if you are from West Point it is time to line up. The military is full of clicks and pseudo societies like the “WPA” (Warrant Officer Protection Association), The Jump Master Mafia and the Ranger Mafia just to name a few that I have come across over the years. Does White privilege exist, yes! When taken in context does it matter anymore than the price of tea in china; for me the answer is not really; others may have had a different experience.
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COL Charles Williams
Thanks SFC Emerson "Zeus" Hazzard ! I appreciate your comments and candor. It does go all ways, and we need to address all types, all directions, if we ever want real equality. We are all guilty if we are honest.
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SSG Byron Napoleon
Equality applies only to laws that govern us... It does not apply to character. If it applies to all things, we will all be same ranks, same pay, live in the same domiciles. There is no such thing as equality outside the law. I am short, you are tall... I will never admit anyone is smarter than me, but I will be lying if I said I was smarter than anyone. Point is... white privileges is just an excuse for lack of perserverance to excel. I have never witnessed any white privileges but then again... I was never envious of anyone's success. Everyone I have worked with in the Army had been professional in their leaderships. There are some that you would wonder how they managed to succeed, but then success in the Army is not limited to APFT. There are other factors that dictates success. I believe those who pull white privileges do so because they despise the fact that they have to follow somebody they do not respect. As a 35yr old man who finished college 6 yrs before joining the Army, I did have that sentiment. I had to be led by a 21yr old kid who never had a real life experience. But I realized that in the Army, he has had more experiences than myself. I learned to comprehend with it. Military is not all about your success... It's about the success of the unit. The unit succeeds, you succeed. And I say again... Goerge Washington Carver said it best.... Ninety-nine percent of the failures come from people who have the habit of making excuses. And you ask what about that 1%? I say... that one percent is still waiting to make that excuse. Don't be that 99% but separate yourself from that 1%.
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Ninety-nine percent of the failures come from people who have the habit of making excuses.
George Washington Carver
George Washington Carver
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There is actually a huge scientific base pulling from social psychology, counseling psychology, social work, epidemiological studies on health care access and utilization (the list goes on) that provides a lot of evidence for "white privilege. "
Here is one of the foundational pieces for the concept (really good read) http://wh.agh.edu.pl/other/materialy/663_2014_03_04_15_03_55_WhitePrivilegeUnpackingtheInvisibleKnapsack.pdf
Here is a decent one in healthcare disparities ( a giant aspect of white privilege in many researchers opinions): Carlson, E. D., & Chamberlain, R. M. (2004). The black–white perception gap and health disparities research. Public Health Nursing, 21(4), 372-379.
Chicago
This last one is by a very well cited and respected researcher. He writes a ton on forms of racism, especially "color blind racism" which is present in some of the responses I've seen. http://www.unc.edu/~fbaum/teaching/articles/Bonilla-Silva-SociologicalForum2004.pdf
I hope this helps further the discussion and everyone's learning!
Here is one of the foundational pieces for the concept (really good read) http://wh.agh.edu.pl/other/materialy/663_2014_03_04_15_03_55_WhitePrivilegeUnpackingtheInvisibleKnapsack.pdf
Here is a decent one in healthcare disparities ( a giant aspect of white privilege in many researchers opinions): Carlson, E. D., & Chamberlain, R. M. (2004). The black–white perception gap and health disparities research. Public Health Nursing, 21(4), 372-379.
Chicago
This last one is by a very well cited and respected researcher. He writes a ton on forms of racism, especially "color blind racism" which is present in some of the responses I've seen. http://www.unc.edu/~fbaum/teaching/articles/Bonilla-Silva-SociologicalForum2004.pdf
I hope this helps further the discussion and everyone's learning!
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CPT (Join to see)
Poverty (more than race) leads to the worst health outcomes and the military is one option available to help pull people out of poverty. Of course people will say it is the poor who have more burden to become disabled and die for our freedom because enlisting is a less desirable option for the well-off.
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CPT (Join to see)
UNNATURAL CAUSES . Explore & Learn | PBS
"Enough to Make You Sick?" – article by H. Epstein Source: New York Times, Oct. 12, 2003 This article looks at the epidemic of premature "aging" and death among the poor. The author explores the question, "Is there something deadly in the American experience of urban poverty itself?" “How racism hurts - literally" – article by Madeline Drexler Source: Boston Globe, July 15, 2007 This article presents an overview of research on the negative...
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Maj (Join to see)
Some of the best examples of White privilege are that White people can dismiss evidence that they have benefitted from their skin color and deny that they participate in system of racial inequality. Privilege, is never having to think about or acknowledge it.
Also, I don't feel like I need to spend much time defending psychology, its extensive use/value in the military, and all of its sub-disciplines studied the the best universities, etc. But if you are interested in reading an interesting writing on the matter please see: http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/the-curious-wavefunction/is-psychology-a-e2809creale2809d-science-does-it-really-matter/
Also, I don't feel like I need to spend much time defending psychology, its extensive use/value in the military, and all of its sub-disciplines studied the the best universities, etc. But if you are interested in reading an interesting writing on the matter please see: http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/the-curious-wavefunction/is-psychology-a-e2809creale2809d-science-does-it-really-matter/
Is psychology a “real” science? Does it really matter?
Fellow Scientific American blogger Melanie Tannenbaum is flustered by allegations that psychology is not a science and I can see where she is coming from.
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Maj (Join to see)
PhDs putting their names on things IS actually how research and science progresses. Psychology, just like all the other respected disciplines, is subjected to peer review if that's what everyone was referring to earlier.
http://www.apa.org/research/responsible/peer/
http://www.senseaboutscience.org/data/files/resources/16/IDontKnowWhatToBelieve_web2011.pdf
http://www.apa.org/research/responsible/peer/
http://www.senseaboutscience.org/data/files/resources/16/IDontKnowWhatToBelieve_web2011.pdf
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I do not think there is such a thing as white privileges.... I may be wrong, but I believe it is an individual's character that matters the most. I have seen people who blames others for their failures... I have failed few times but my failure is only because I allowed it. In my military career, I have never seen any privileges played regardless of race. So, this question really bugs me. So, I will say... anyone who plays privileges game... should look at him or herself whether white, black or brown and ask yourself... do my character play a role in my success or am I getting along because of my complexion? If you can't answer that, then put your boots on and earned the respect you demand.
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