Posted on Jul 31, 2017
During an interview for a job, is the person conducting the interview allowed to hold your military service against you as a disqualifier?
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I recently retired after 27 yrs of service and applied for a job posting I knew I was fully qualified for. However during the job interview, the company co-owner stated they did not know if they were willing to take a chance on me with zero civilian experience. Two weeks later I was called and told I did not get the job because of this fact. Is this legal and was I discriminated against?
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 12
There is no law to the best of my knowledge that says a private company must hire someone they don't wish to hire. Many companies have internal policies ensuring non-discrimination and many also give veterans an edge in hiring.
However, I would not care to work for a company that looked down on my service.
However, I would not care to work for a company that looked down on my service.
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SFC Michael Sanderson
Thank you for your feed back Capt Waddell. I just felt odd when the co-owner said it aloud to me not having civilian experience as a disqualifier. I really did not know how to respond to her. It came across to me as a discriminator since I've served 27 of my 46 years on this earth serving my country I love. Beside that single fact, I am confidant I was the most qualified candidate for the position posted. Like you stated though, I do not want to work for a company that holds this against me or views this as a weakness for a job.
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Capt Seid Waddell
Exactly. It is their loss - and it is your gain to find out what kind of a work environment they have there.
It has been my experience that hard-core lefties are anti-military and arrogant about it. The best way to deal with them is through the rear view mirror.
It has been my experience that hard-core lefties are anti-military and arrogant about it. The best way to deal with them is through the rear view mirror.
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Walk away... do you REALLY want to work for losers who think so little of the military?
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I am running into an issue similar but different in that my civilian job of many years is preventing me from obtaining any specialty assignments and affecting my promotability score simply because I am still a military reservist. While this is a clear violation of law, I cannot *definitively* prove it, even though I have been told this by people in confidence who are "in the know." It's unfortunate that the situation you describe and mine still affects veterans and there seems to be little that we can do.
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SFC Michael Sanderson
This particular job was right up my alley since I was applying for a Program Manager over a Gov contract that has DCMA oversight. I retired 3 months ago from a 2 year assignment as a DCMA Gov Ground Rep having oversight of civilian contracts. I was assigned to a civilian facility for those two years. Doesn't make sense to me why the company I was applying for didn't want me with my experience, but I guess from what I'm hearing from you and others this is happening to many of us Veterans.
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SGT Dave Tracy
The Chief's situation is a little different in that he is still in Uncle Sam's employ as a Reservist; thereby (potentially, most likely really) making what these companies are doing illegal. While it never happened to ma, I do know a few guys whose Reservist status made civilian employers either not hire them, make their employment difficult or pushed them out the door. But as you allude to Chief, "knowing" and "Proving" are two different animals.
Based on what you wrote about their (supposed) civilian work experience requirements, the company you applied to is being shortsighted and douchey, but its not illegal (to be shortsighted and douchey) as you are retired as opposed to being currently employed in the Reserves or Guard.
Now--and I'm not saying you should do this if you can, but--my guess is you may have contacts that could be leveraged AGAINST the company that was being so douchey to you, and a well placed narrative of your experience with the aforementioned business might be a source of irritation to them; it may not derail their government contracts, but it may negatively affect their brand, which they may be sensitive to. Just putting that out there. Not saying you should do it, but its a thought.
Based on what you wrote about their (supposed) civilian work experience requirements, the company you applied to is being shortsighted and douchey, but its not illegal (to be shortsighted and douchey) as you are retired as opposed to being currently employed in the Reserves or Guard.
Now--and I'm not saying you should do this if you can, but--my guess is you may have contacts that could be leveraged AGAINST the company that was being so douchey to you, and a well placed narrative of your experience with the aforementioned business might be a source of irritation to them; it may not derail their government contracts, but it may negatively affect their brand, which they may be sensitive to. Just putting that out there. Not saying you should do it, but its a thought.
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Only they know if your lack of civilian experience was the real reason or not. But that is a legitimate reason I suppose so it doesn't appear that they were holding your military service against you. Just part of it.
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SFC Michael Sanderson
CPT Everett, it was definitely an eye opener during the interview as well as other interviews I had. I believed my transition from a Senior NCO to a civilian career as an aviation NCO would be fairly easy since I'm experienced and licensed but in reality, it's harder than most Soldiers know. Ultimately I ended up contracting for an overseas position for a year buying time for hopefully new job postings I will be able to apply for when I return next year. This will also give me a year of civilian experience I can add to my resume to position myself as more marketable.
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MAJ (Join to see)
SFC Michael Sanderson - Sounds like a solid plan. I would think that anyone with as much time in as you had would be considered an asset to a company. Some people probably think "military" and scenes from Full Metal Jacket start playing in their heads.
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They're not allowed to hold the fact you were in the military against you, however, it looks like they aren't directly doing that so this situation is sketchy as to if they are within the law. USERRA is going to be your best friend when dealing with these situations. Here's the link:
https://www.dol.gov/vets/programs/userra/userra_fs.htm
Also, this article is a good read:
https://www.aol.com/2012/09/27/7-signs-of-discrimination-against-veterans-at-work/
The main thing is to know what the law says and, in doing so, know your rights. Last but not least, I would seek legal counsel. At worst you will be told you don't have a case. At best, you will be able to seek some form of remedy. Best of luck to you.
https://www.dol.gov/vets/programs/userra/userra_fs.htm
Also, this article is a good read:
https://www.aol.com/2012/09/27/7-signs-of-discrimination-against-veterans-at-work/
The main thing is to know what the law says and, in doing so, know your rights. Last but not least, I would seek legal counsel. At worst you will be told you don't have a case. At best, you will be able to seek some form of remedy. Best of luck to you.
U.S. Department of Labor -- Veterans' Employment and Training Service (VETS) -- Fact Sheet 3
The Department of Labor, through the Veterans' Employment and Training Service (VETS), provides assistance to all persons having claims under USERRA.
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SFC Michael Sanderson
Don't worry Soldier, already did. Took another job heading overseas with a contractor we've all worked with as Soldiers for years. I couldn't even get that other company to return my calls or emails. Let's just say I will not be friending that other company on LinkedIn or RallyPoint anytime now or ever.
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In a sense, yes. But since they used the phrase "civilian experience," as their loophole.....
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I still remember the first job interview I had after leaving the Army in 1997. I had joined the Army right out of high school and served 9 years, attaining the rank of SFC/E-7.
I had applied for a Production Supervisor position at a local manufacturing facility. The arrogant prick of an HR Manager kept asked me if I had any "supervisory experience". I told him that 7 of my 9 years on active duty I served as an NCO and that I supervised numerous soldiers in a variety of assignments and was responsible for multi-million dollar pieces of military equipment.
My answer apparently annoyed the HR Manager because he rudely interrupted me and said..."I'm talking about real-world civilian supervising experience". Needless to say...I was speechless! I looked at the guy and said "you're right....I don't have any "real-world" supervisory experience so I'm going to withdraw my application. I then stood up, thanked him for his time, and walked out the door.
Fast forward 2 months later....this same arrogant prick of an HR manager calls me up and says he wants to offer me one of their Production Supervisor openings. Apparently he offered the position to 2 other guys, who both turned him down. His only option at that point was to offer me the job or re-post and re-interview a new group of applicants. I politely reminded him that, in his own words, I didn't have any "real-world" supervisory experience. He then back-tracked, stammered a bit, and made some lame excuse that he would "make an exception" for me. I then told him that if I wasn't good enough to work for him 2 months ago...then I wouldn't be good enough to work for him now and then hung up on him.
I had applied for a Production Supervisor position at a local manufacturing facility. The arrogant prick of an HR Manager kept asked me if I had any "supervisory experience". I told him that 7 of my 9 years on active duty I served as an NCO and that I supervised numerous soldiers in a variety of assignments and was responsible for multi-million dollar pieces of military equipment.
My answer apparently annoyed the HR Manager because he rudely interrupted me and said..."I'm talking about real-world civilian supervising experience". Needless to say...I was speechless! I looked at the guy and said "you're right....I don't have any "real-world" supervisory experience so I'm going to withdraw my application. I then stood up, thanked him for his time, and walked out the door.
Fast forward 2 months later....this same arrogant prick of an HR manager calls me up and says he wants to offer me one of their Production Supervisor openings. Apparently he offered the position to 2 other guys, who both turned him down. His only option at that point was to offer me the job or re-post and re-interview a new group of applicants. I politely reminded him that, in his own words, I didn't have any "real-world" supervisory experience. He then back-tracked, stammered a bit, and made some lame excuse that he would "make an exception" for me. I then told him that if I wasn't good enough to work for him 2 months ago...then I wouldn't be good enough to work for him now and then hung up on him.
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Be prepared to hear about this on a recurring basis, both as a positive and a negative.
Many companies have had issues with problem employees that were veterans. They watch the news and surmise that we all have PTSD and might go nuts at any moment.
Others are veterans themselves, or know the values of work ethic, teamwork, and leadership that are embodied in military service and can't hire enough veterans.
The right opportunity will come. Just be patient and keep at it.
Many companies have had issues with problem employees that were veterans. They watch the news and surmise that we all have PTSD and might go nuts at any moment.
Others are veterans themselves, or know the values of work ethic, teamwork, and leadership that are embodied in military service and can't hire enough veterans.
The right opportunity will come. Just be patient and keep at it.
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Better you find out in an interview that they don't understand the military rather than a couple months into the job. That phrase may be an indicator of more misunderstandings to come or of a culture clash.
Also, whether or not its discrimination you'll be treated differently because of your background no matter where you go - sometimes well and sometimes poorly. It comes with the territory.
Also, whether or not its discrimination you'll be treated differently because of your background no matter where you go - sometimes well and sometimes poorly. It comes with the territory.
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Always hard to say and harder to prove. As a retired Army Reservist when ever I was interviewed I would hold off on tell them I was a reserve member because of the Battle Assembly and two week AT commitment until I had the job.
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