Posted on Aug 22, 2014
Feelings on displaying the Confederate flag on your POV or person while on a military installation?
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Recently, I had a long and heated discussion with a fellow veteran about this issue. I don't know for sure whether a branch-specific reg or a DoD-wide reg exists that prohibits/allows personnel on a military installation to display the Confederate flag on their personal vehicle or on their person (e.g. a belt buckle). Maybe this is a base-specific policy and left to the judgment of the installation commander. Display of the Confederate flag is a divisive issue and people often feel really strongly one way or the other. But today, it is still a relevant topic and touches on other military leadership/discipline areas, including the actions of one member deeply offending another member -- regardless of whether said action is legal/authorized. That can create huge problems in a military unit, and this happened in a unit I personally served in. So, below are my questions for the RallyPoint community about this issue.
Please try to keep comments professional (don't attack one another) and explain your thoughts as best you can.
Questions:
(1) How do you feel about the Confederate flag being displayed on the vehicle/person of a service member if he/she is ON post? How does your opinion change if the member is OFF post?
(2) What does the Confederate flag symbolize to you personally? What do you think it can symbolize to other people around you who may perceive it differently?
(3) If you have personally experienced a military-related situation where a symbol/flag caused someone to be offended, what happened and what did you/would you have done as the leader?
I look fwd to everyone's thoughts on this. Personally, I have some strong feelings about this issue, though I don't want to bias people's answers upfront. Please be as honest as possible.
Tag: SSG Emily Williams Col (Join to see) 1SG Steven Stankovich SSG Scott Williams 1LT Sandy Annala CPT (Join to see) SSG V. Michelle Woods MSG Carl Cunningham
Please try to keep comments professional (don't attack one another) and explain your thoughts as best you can.
Questions:
(1) How do you feel about the Confederate flag being displayed on the vehicle/person of a service member if he/she is ON post? How does your opinion change if the member is OFF post?
(2) What does the Confederate flag symbolize to you personally? What do you think it can symbolize to other people around you who may perceive it differently?
(3) If you have personally experienced a military-related situation where a symbol/flag caused someone to be offended, what happened and what did you/would you have done as the leader?
I look fwd to everyone's thoughts on this. Personally, I have some strong feelings about this issue, though I don't want to bias people's answers upfront. Please be as honest as possible.
Tag: SSG Emily Williams Col (Join to see) 1SG Steven Stankovich SSG Scott Williams 1LT Sandy Annala CPT (Join to see) SSG V. Michelle Woods MSG Carl Cunningham
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 325
This issue is the epitome of a situation that no matter what side you are on, you are wrong on some level. First and foremost it is a 1st amendment issue. I would say that just about any person in the military would say the main reason they joined the military was to fight and protect all our rights, morals and way of life we enjoy. The reason for the Bill of Rights in the first place was keep sacred the protection the rights of the few. Willing to risk life and limb to ensure those minority opinions, no matter how reprehensible they be (ie.. KKK, Arian Brotherhood, Black Panther etc...). This right has never been taken lightly. That being said, in this particular case, the federal government is not working as a legislative body, but rather that of employer. As such, in order to serve, one must sign a contract with numerous clauses, just as any employer does. Even jobs that do not require signed contracts, do have a code of conduct, handbook or otherwise set of rules. The most basic example is that requirement of a uniform or dress code. And yes this can extend to one's off duty time as well. The best example I can think of would be that of law enforcement. In order to work for such an employer, perhaps a rule prohibiting beards is in place. Since it is highly unlikely one could grow a full beard in just a few days, enough to look respectable anyhow, it is made a rule that no beards be allowed. The list could become extensive. No visible tattoos, no t-shirts with offensive language, religious or political speech etc... Since this would be considered a highly visible profession, the courts have consistently held that an off duty officer can still be held to the same standard they are when they are on duty, and this is not considered a violation of the officer's first amendment rights. He or she has the choice of not taking the job!! However, nothing is ever as cut and dried as this. If you take the same individual and have them delivering newspapers to news boxes in town at 3:30 in the morning, now it does violate their rights. Now, to me the confederate flag means a time in our history when several of the united states succeeded from the union in order to protect the rights of those states to govern themselves without the interference of the federal government. It was believed this would lead to excessive interference of a large central government that would continue to grow to an unmanageable level that would continue to slowly strip away more and more rights of the people. Look around you, they were not wrong!!! It just so happened that the right at issue was each states freedom to choose to be a free or slave state. ( Google the Missouri Compromise). Understandably so, through the flawed teaching of our history by our many varied school systems, millions of children were taught that the Civil War was fought over slavery. This is fundamentally incorrect. It was fought over states rights. Because of this, the Confederate flag has become a dark symbol in our country meaning that those who display it endorse slavery or are prejudice over African Americans. Many may be, but to me it symbolizes a time in our history that showed once again that when Americans feel oppression from the state, they are willing to fight tooth and nail, to the death for our freedoms. It just so happens the irony was to have the freedom to keep freedom from others. However, we are still dealing with the same issue today, only now the subject is the Affordable Care Act.
I did not set out to make this politically correct. I set out to state my opinion and back it up with facts. I make no apologies for my statements. In no way have I set out to hurt anyone. However, if you have read this in its entirety and feel I have offended you, please reread it as most likely there is something that I wrote that you simply didn't understand.
I did not set out to make this politically correct. I set out to state my opinion and back it up with facts. I make no apologies for my statements. In no way have I set out to hurt anyone. However, if you have read this in its entirety and feel I have offended you, please reread it as most likely there is something that I wrote that you simply didn't understand.
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LCpl Mark Lefler
My example of the flaw of states rights is this, if Alabama, Louisiana had their way, there would still be segregation in the south. The civil rights act would be void to them.
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Suspended Profile
I'm from South Carolina, the first state to succeed from the union. South Carolina no longer uses any of the flags of the confederacy, so I neither hold it in high regard nor disdain. It is a part of the history of our great nation and, if used as a reminder that we shall never be divided again, I think it's appropriate. People like what they like. As long as it's not being used as a tool to divide then it is permissible. I've had to educate people in the military on the meaning behind such things, not just the most popular confederate flag. I think the ways in which I approach situations like that leave everyone with a better understanding that it is not about racism, it's about remembering an important piece of our history. Now, if someone is using it as an inflammatory tool, they will remove it, end of story. Most people display the Naval Jack, based on the dimensions, and not the battle flag that they are intending.
CPT (Join to see)
Those terms are never acceptable in any context, and I would quickly file paperwork on any soldier to chapter them out, point blank. If we are trying to be "the shining light on the hill" what message does this send if we accept ignorance and intolerance of this nature? This is a "no-go".
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this is simple.
the Confederacy was an enemy of the USA and unlike other past enemies of the USA, it is not was not recognized as an ally or partner.
the Confederacy was an enemy of the USA and unlike other past enemies of the USA, it is not was not recognized as an ally or partner.
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DOD should institute a comprehensive policy for all the services both on and off post.
When I see a rebel flag I immediately think of slavery, lynchings, and other demeaning actions such as white only sections. On a battlefield the rebel flag supporter may move slowly to help a Soldier of color. Conversely, a Soldier of color may be slow to help the rebel flag supporter. You cannot even have the mere thought of something like these deliberate acts in a unit.
When I see a rebel flag I immediately think of slavery, lynchings, and other demeaning actions such as white only sections. On a battlefield the rebel flag supporter may move slowly to help a Soldier of color. Conversely, a Soldier of color may be slow to help the rebel flag supporter. You cannot even have the mere thought of something like these deliberate acts in a unit.
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My late stepdad retired from the Army as a CW4. He was a Purple Heart recipient and member of the Sons of Confederate Veterans. He said that had he been around then he would have fought for the south. He was a good man and it’s because of him that I just cannot see the Confederacy as the embodiment of evil that I feel like I’m being told it was. At the very least I have some respect for those guys as fellow soldiers.
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Being born and raised in Kentucky my early Heros were Robert E. Lee, Stonewall Jackson, John Mosby along with George Washington and Francis Marion. Kentucky was truly torn as it’s families frequently fought on both sides. None of my people owned Slaves or knew anyone who did but they were against the North telling the South how to Govern themselves. The Slavery Question was a political argument and did not involve the Common man who farmed his rocky acres with one mule and owned one cow, if he was lucky. Children went barefoot in the summer. Usually everyone owned a Squirrel gun and shotgun in order to kill small game to supplement their garden. The Stars and Bars Identified the Southern Troops to keep from shooting their own people as war is very confusing at times, especially then. So now we are here so many years later and and people who had nothing to do with the War are upset when a person wears a flag to remember his or her Heritage of Brave ancestors who answered the call of their State to defend it from attacks from the Northern Armies. While My Hero might be your Villain, so is the reverse true. Talk to the people of Atlanta about General Sherman. Still his ancestors are proud of him and rightly so. Today we have much to disagree over. No one who has a Confederate Flag beloved in Slavery and they Damn sure have never owned a slave nor their Father or Grandfather. Today things like this are a personal choice. Let them stay that way.
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I feel that the confederate flag should be allowed just like the US flag or another flag that is not deemed to be a symbol of hate. That being said I know that some people see the flag as a hate crime but "in my opinion" they only refer to this flag not for what it stood for as a symbol of the states the withdrew from the US but as a slave banner. I fly both as a testament to all our history but that is just me. With that being said I think if people hate the confederate flag they should also hate the US flag based on the same reasons. It was a symbol for the men and women of the south to rally behind just like our now 50 star flag we of the armed forces rally behind and fight for a symbol of freedom we have all shed blood sweat and tears.
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I am a white person I'm a history major. I get offended when I see what is now called the "confederate" flag. I feel that those who display it unfortunately believe in the lost cause narrative which was a must education of the southern youth on purpose by the confederacy and racists. Even if the flag meant what they think- Why what do you want to display your pride in the fact that one of your ancestors committed treason Hand to the point you had to wear Something proclaiming their treason on you unless you still held their values. The Civil War was not about states rights it was clearly and only about slavery ask also clearly stated in the declarations of war. Wearing the symbolism also implies to me you feel the south will rise again - that also feels un patriotic and offensive. Finally a person who feels They need to wear a divisive symbols such as this to display their heritage regardless of who they offend tells me that person is not a thoughtful or caring person. That is not who I want to represent me as a member of the military and as a retired officer.
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