Posted on Aug 22, 2014
Feelings on displaying the Confederate flag on your POV or person while on a military installation?
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Recently, I had a long and heated discussion with a fellow veteran about this issue. I don't know for sure whether a branch-specific reg or a DoD-wide reg exists that prohibits/allows personnel on a military installation to display the Confederate flag on their personal vehicle or on their person (e.g. a belt buckle). Maybe this is a base-specific policy and left to the judgment of the installation commander. Display of the Confederate flag is a divisive issue and people often feel really strongly one way or the other. But today, it is still a relevant topic and touches on other military leadership/discipline areas, including the actions of one member deeply offending another member -- regardless of whether said action is legal/authorized. That can create huge problems in a military unit, and this happened in a unit I personally served in. So, below are my questions for the RallyPoint community about this issue.
Please try to keep comments professional (don't attack one another) and explain your thoughts as best you can.
Questions:
(1) How do you feel about the Confederate flag being displayed on the vehicle/person of a service member if he/she is ON post? How does your opinion change if the member is OFF post?
(2) What does the Confederate flag symbolize to you personally? What do you think it can symbolize to other people around you who may perceive it differently?
(3) If you have personally experienced a military-related situation where a symbol/flag caused someone to be offended, what happened and what did you/would you have done as the leader?
I look fwd to everyone's thoughts on this. Personally, I have some strong feelings about this issue, though I don't want to bias people's answers upfront. Please be as honest as possible.
Tag: SSG Emily Williams Col (Join to see) 1SG Steven Stankovich SSG Scott Williams 1LT Sandy Annala CPT (Join to see) SSG V. Michelle Woods MSG Carl Cunningham
Please try to keep comments professional (don't attack one another) and explain your thoughts as best you can.
Questions:
(1) How do you feel about the Confederate flag being displayed on the vehicle/person of a service member if he/she is ON post? How does your opinion change if the member is OFF post?
(2) What does the Confederate flag symbolize to you personally? What do you think it can symbolize to other people around you who may perceive it differently?
(3) If you have personally experienced a military-related situation where a symbol/flag caused someone to be offended, what happened and what did you/would you have done as the leader?
I look fwd to everyone's thoughts on this. Personally, I have some strong feelings about this issue, though I don't want to bias people's answers upfront. Please be as honest as possible.
Tag: SSG Emily Williams Col (Join to see) 1SG Steven Stankovich SSG Scott Williams 1LT Sandy Annala CPT (Join to see) SSG V. Michelle Woods MSG Carl Cunningham
Regulation
Policy
Respect
Confederate Flag
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 325
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Displays racism because it was used as the flag of the south where there was more racism to me if you fly it you're flying it with the knowledge that it represents racism among other things and I think the racism triumphs the other things.
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SSG (ret) William Martin
If you assume the guy is racist because he is white with a c-flag I believe that make you racist as well.
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TSgt (Join to see)
Yet we condone (and think it's funny) when Infantry Soldiers call everyone not 11 or 18 Series, "Pogs" and when Airborne-qualified Soldiers call non-Airborne qualified Soldiers "Legs."
What's the difference? Putting someone else down for your amusement, thinking you are somehow better than someone else because of the job that you do, and/or the fact that you spent 3 weeks at the US Army Airborne School, and jumped out of an aircraft for one of those weeks?
Why is this stuff accepted and laughed at, yet, if you are white and have pride in your Southern heritage, you are somehow racist and/or a threat?
What's the difference? Putting someone else down for your amusement, thinking you are somehow better than someone else because of the job that you do, and/or the fact that you spent 3 weeks at the US Army Airborne School, and jumped out of an aircraft for one of those weeks?
Why is this stuff accepted and laughed at, yet, if you are white and have pride in your Southern heritage, you are somehow racist and/or a threat?
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PFC (Join to see)
I'm just saying that the flag represents racism I wouldn't want that stigma around me personally. I don't think I'm better than anyone even though I'll prolly become air assault qualified hell the only reason I'll even wear my wings is because they make you. I just don't understand how people can think they're better than other people when we all bleed the same color.
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I could see an NCOER bullet point for poor judgement.
Flying the flag of a defeated traitorous enemy with strong connotations of racism and intolerance. Yeah that could reflect poorly on the soldier.
Flying the flag of a defeated traitorous enemy with strong connotations of racism and intolerance. Yeah that could reflect poorly on the soldier.
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When my youngest brother was an active-duty Marine, he came home on leave one time with a big-ass, dinner plate sized, Confederate flag buckle. I told him to take the POS off and he said he was expressing his "Southern Pride." I explained to him that I didn't have a problem with him being proud of being from Texas, but that he shouldn't be a "proud Southerner" because if the Confederates had been completely successful, neither of us would be here. Then I told him the story of the Massacre on the Nueces (my great-great-great grandfather was a survivor who ended up as a Union Captain). He never wore that buckle again...
NUECES, BATTLE OF THE | The Handbook of Texas Online| Texas State Historical Association (TSHA)
NUECES, BATTLE OF THE. The Civil War skirmish known as the battle of the Nueces took place on the morning of August 10, 1862, when a force of Hill Country Unionists, encamped en route to Mexico on the west bank of the Nueces River about twenty miles from Fort Clark in present-day Kinney County, were attacked by mounted Confederate soldiers. The Unionists, mostly German intellectuals led by Maj. Fritz Tegener, had camped without choosing a...
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I was born and raised in the South - I feel the Confederate Flag is a part of our Country's History - like it or not. Depends on how the flag is used or displayed. Last year at a Mardi Gras parade and band from a all black school came through and they were awesome, everyone was cheering etc, then this group of people across the street who had their confederate flags out waving them at the students and booing was only out for hatred. Me being the strong silent type went over after the parade and told them they should be ashamed of themselves for the way they acted and it was very disrespectful etc and naturally they called me names and I just laughed moved on.
You cannot tell anyone that they cannot put items on their privately owned vehicles or what you can display on your private property. However on base you should not have confederate flags on your base house. If you have items on your vehicle that are indecent and offensive nature then the base commander should be able to do something about it.
You cannot tell anyone that they cannot put items on their privately owned vehicles or what you can display on your private property. However on base you should not have confederate flags on your base house. If you have items on your vehicle that are indecent and offensive nature then the base commander should be able to do something about it.
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Is that flag not the battle standard of a defeated enemy military? If you are in the US military you are an active member of what used to be the Union Army/North. Symbols of racism/culture argument aside, it would be like displaying a WWII era German flag or a NK flag, and before anyone calls me a damn Yankee, my grandmother still calls it the war of northern aggression. The point is, you voluntarily joined the military of the United States of America, not the Confederate States of America so their battle standard has no business on base.
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What ever makes you feel good about where you are from fly their flag all you want. Since american politics has been corrupted by football TBI mentality for the last 100 years it is only natural for a kid to tag himself with the fucking logo of the local team. In this case the South. By the way, they lost 0=1.
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Just like all these 'talking points' we get a blizzard of political chaff that is meant to keep us from working together. Sure you have the pinheads who exploit the racists and their rants but then you get people blending the term 'redneck' and the rebel flag as being one and the same.
So as 1LT Sandy Annala alluded to, there is a lot of baloney that is 'urban legend' and that urban legend is a destructive political force. While I personally would not fly that flag, it has nothing to do with it per se and it has everything to do with the fact that I am not southern and can't relate to General Lee. But I do respect that part of culture who had their way of life, exclusive of slavery and oppression.
So as 1LT Sandy Annala alluded to, there is a lot of baloney that is 'urban legend' and that urban legend is a destructive political force. While I personally would not fly that flag, it has nothing to do with it per se and it has everything to do with the fact that I am not southern and can't relate to General Lee. But I do respect that part of culture who had their way of life, exclusive of slavery and oppression.
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"Every man should endeavor to understand the meaning of subjugation before it is too late. It means the history of this heroic struggle will be written by the enemy; that our youth will be trained by Northern schoolteachers; will learn from Northern school books their version of the war; will be impressed by the influences of history and education to regard our gallant dead as traitors, and our maimed veterans as fit objects for derision. It is said slavery is all we are fighting for, and if we give it up we give up all. Even if this were true, which we deny, slavery is not all our enemies are fighting for. It is merely the pretense to establish sectional superiority and a more centralized form of government, and to deprive us of our rights and liberties."--- Maj. General Patrick R. Cleburne, CSA.
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PFC Eric Minchey
No disrespect intended sir, but history is written by the victors & a lie is a lie just because they write it down & call it history doesn't make it true. This is the reason I want to be a historian so I can expose these lies & because people have short memories & those who are too young to know need to be taught. Also one could argue that those documents were written to please the highest bidders & biggest campaign contributors as is often done in politics. Those documents and others like them may have spoken for the 1% of the confederacy that owned slaves but not for the other 99% of the confederacy.
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LCDR (Join to see)
Well, if we're going to get rid of all things divisive, then I'd like to see Democrat bumper stickers go. After all, it was the Democratic Party that fought for slavery, Jim Crow laws, and founded the KKK.
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LCpl Todd Houston
I will never tell anyone to never write with emotion, as some of the most cherished literary works through history were written full with emotion. But I digress. Because these works would never be published if they had to pass the muster of a censor, or group of them. The very reason that I joined the military was to support and defend the constitution for everyone. The entire constitution, not just the parts that suited me. As detestable as I feel about a Nazi parade, ( or gay pride parade, ((fill in your least favorite parade)) ) I would do everything in my power to make sure that it could go on. Even though it would have "no place in our modern society". Deep down, I truly believe you would do the same. Don't like what's on t.v.? Turn the channel, or off. And that is the real reason for this discussion in the first place. The "Confederate Flag" just happened to be the catalyst. I'm thrilled that you took the time to read these posts, and place one of your own. I am very proud of you for serving our beloved country, and can never truly thank you enough for that service. Your emotion is very appropriate for this type of venue as it is enough to spark the emotions of others and keep us in a civil dialogue. SSGT, please don't feel that I am trying to contradict you or belittle you in any way. Truly, I have been watching this forum for weeks now and have wanted to leave a post such as this many times. It just happened to be your post that lit a fire under my butt. Respectfully, todd d. Houston
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PFC Eric Minchey
SGT, I intend to do so by encouraging my students to read, question & think for themselves to look at other material (books, films, etc) to study and form their own thoughts & opinions on historical events not just take the school-issued text books's word for it and to encourage them to pass that encouragement on to their children. Does that answer your question?
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CAPT Kletzing on the other hand off duty military people who display black red and green in their civillian attire offends me,the same way the confederate flag offends them...tit for tat!
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